DD wants to do languages but we worry

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My daughter wants to go to university and she is taking French, Maths and Psych A-levels. She just got a B in French in recent year 12 exams (following a grade 9 at GCSE) and she says she wants to study languages at Uni (the school will predict an A in French). However she got AA in Maths and Psychology exams (and will be predicted A stars in those two). I am worried that she is focusing in on her weakest subject (French) and it is not vocational either. Also We have been told that modern languages degrees are full of native speakers and that the year abroad is now so difficult and expensive if you don’t have an EU passport. I would like DD to take a year out to rethink languages and explore Maths/Psych/STEM but would like advice please

I did languages, now a very high earner but doing nothing related to languages.

People on my course ended up doing varying things some related some not, some are high earners, many aren't.

Career success is all about the person you are (your ambition, resilience, adaptability, ability to spot opportunities and go after them) and rarely anything to do with your degree. (doctors, architects and so on as the exception)

A Maths degree is not really vocational either. Let her follow what she really wants to do.

I see too many students doing badly, dropping out, doing the minimum, because they're doing what their parents pressured them towards, rather than what they really wanted to study.

And we need Brits with good non-English language skills more than ever. Some great careers would open to her.

I did a modern languages degree (French and Spanish.) I only used it for the first 2 years of my career.

I would never do an arts degree again, what a waste of time and money it was, especially because these days you can learn languages so easily and effectively via apps online.

Maybe I would do it again if I wanted to work in academia or become a languages teacher or translator.

All I can tell you is that in my sphere (commercial law) many, many roles are advertised looking for people who can speak at least one other European language. If she does French plus a new language to degree level, as is possible, I can’t believe she won’t have many options.

Try searching for jobs that require MFL. There are absolutely loads!! It absolutely is a valid degree choice.

This kind of attitude is why MFL departments in HE are starting to diminish - that and the low uptake at school.

We will always need people who speak other languages!
And if there are native speakers on the course they might be restricted in the modules that they can take, but otherwise how does their presence affect anyone else?

You may have a point about the Year Abroad. If you're low income you'll be fine, it's the middle income families that might struggle.

Visas are fine, we're a few years in now so consulates are getting the hang of the student visa influx.

The thing about native speakers I don’t get - as I understand it MFL at degree level is about studying literature, history and culture; it’s not pure language competence.
she might be at some disadvantage having not done a big essay subject like English or history at A level, perhaps, but that’s surmountable. I did law and people with sciences at a level found it tough to adjust to an essay subject at first but they got there in the end.

Thank you for replies. DD says she likes learning French but not studying the culture or history etc. She wants to learn another language too from scratch. But if modern languages degrees are all about studying literature and culture which she doesn’t want, then why take a languages degree I asked her. She has no answer but says there will be a way of doing pure languages?

I guess there’s quite a lot of variation in degrees but if she has no interest in culture, literature etc is she sure that languages is what she wants to do? Even at a level a fair bit if the work is literature, film, current social issues etc

My son is doing languages at the moment and it's been tough.

The Turing Scheme has meant he's had no financial contribution and it's cost us a LOT of money. Trips to London for visas, the visas themselves etc. all add up and it's so stressful waiting for them, the university have offered no support in this. That along with flights and other costs have cost us well into the thousands.

I would be careful about taking advice from anyone who did this pre-Brexit, it's a whole new ball game now.

It makes me so sad because it's a wonderful degree but it's been ruined by Brexit imo.

You may have a point about the Year Abroad. If you're low income you'll be fine, it's the middle income families that might struggle. @BreezySunnyDay

We will get minimum maintenance loan but will struggle to top it up let alone fund a year abroad. This is another reason to avoid a languages degree I think coz funding is not available post-Brexit unless u are lower income

@Gallese we really really don’t have spare thousands to fund flights, visas etc and will have DS in Uni as well by then! So a languages degree is just not credible

I'm not sure she's right about that- different courses give different options but I haven't come across one which doesn't require at least some engagement with the culture (whether that's literature, film, history, politics...) as a large part of the point is understanding of cultures and how language relates to culture.

If she's interested in language in itself, how about linguistics? She has pretty much the perfect set of A levels for that and she might really like it. There will be topics where she needs to think about language in relation to culture (sociolinguistics, pragmatics etc) but also plenty where she can focus on the purely linguistic, such as syntax and morphology. She could do this alongside French or on its own.

Languages enrich your life far beyond your degree and employment prospects. However, they are also very well respected by employers.

I have yet to come across an app that will get you anywhere near the level a degree in a language will!

On a related point, the aim of a language degree is more than just getting you to an advanced working standard in that language. You study literature, history and politics as well, so saying there are loads of French people in the UK who are fluent in English is missing the point. A language degree is a broad humanities degree that builds critical thinking and analytical skills.

But if modern languages degrees are all about studying literature and culture which she doesn’t want, then why take a languages degree I asked her. She has no answer but says there will be a way of doing pure languages?
Yeah, just work abroad for a few years. There's no law which says that she has to go to University; it's a very expensive decision these days and no longer a 'given' (especially for a clever student like your DD who has plenty of choice).

A thought which might be bonkers but anyway; if it’s the mechanics of learning languages, grammar, etc that she likes, maybe classics could work? You can now do classics learning Latin and Greek ab initio (heh) I believe

Why does Turing mean he's had to incur costs? Turing replaced all the same costs as Erasmus for outbound students. Or does the university not have Turing funding?

Your DD really must own this choice, OP. I am a STEM academic and every year I get one or two personal advisees who have entered our field because of parental pressure. They usually have a hard time engaging fully and often fail to live up to their potential.

Naturally I like the idea of Maths or MFL and Maths. The latter can lead to a variety of good career paths. Maths graduates are highly employable despite the lack of a clear vocational pathway for many of them.

However your DD may not want any Maths, fair enough. She does sound a perfect fit for Linguistics. As she wants Language w/o the history and culture, she might also be interested in the Joint Hons BA in Linguistics and Modern Languages. I have just seen it at Oxford, Newcastle and a couple of other places

@fancreek the Turing funding is much less than Erasmus and some MFL departments are having to prioritise low income background students.

Also it's only agreed for a couple of years at a time, unlike Erasmus which was 7 years, so very hard to predict what might be available in the future.

@fancreek he's had none of the Turing funding the university received, it's gone to other people. He's had no financial help with the costs of going abroad.

Turing and Erasmus schemes are very different and most of the people on this thread did language degrees in Erasmus times.

I have mentioned the lack of funding through Truing before on Mumsnet and been told I was lying so I didn't really want to go there again but then again it's 100% relevant to this thread.

MFLs are valuable degrees in many fields. A successful degree outcome is preferable to a drop out because you persuaded her to do something she didn’t want to do. If you have really significant concerns perhaps as others have said, suggest a joint or combined honours (although careful with credit numbers for Psych, as need to meet the required number to be recognised by the BPS). Without wanting to be outing, I’m a senior manager in an international business and would be happy hiring a MFL graduate.

I don't think it's going to be thousands, unless she's planning to do her Year abroad in Quebec or somewhere.

She will still be entitled to Student Loans for that year, you're not expected to entirely fund the year yourselves. Plus she may qualify for a bursary. Look into all of the options before dismissing it.

She may be able to do her Year Abroad as a language assistant with the British Council, in which case she would get paid. And the BC are very helpful in regard to visas etc.

On top of that, she could do online tutoring a couple of times a week to top up her income.
My DD did that plus British Council and also had her maintenance loan. She had a great year 😊

MFL degrees are not full of native speakers at all. There are often a handful, who enhance the learning experience. Native speakers are often not those who end up with the best degrees, as a languages degree is so multi-facetted.
YA is a bit more difficult, but still v manageable. It can be the making of them and really sets them apart on the job market. An MFL degree is fantastic.

Languages are a brilliant add on as a career and give you options. I don't think many people use them as a career destination though.

Just following on from my last message...in fact I didn't need to give my DD any money at all during her Year Abroad and it was very recent.