Dd really struggling

[Greyskiess]

Dd is in her first year and studying maths. She's home for the Easter break and shared last night how much she is struggling, I say shared but it was more like I dragged it out of her.

For the last term she hardly been to any lectures and hasn't submitted any work/sat any of the tests. The first term she seemed to manage okay and got some decent marks. It sounds like she's been quite depressed but that's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario as I'm not sure if she's just feeling like that because she's struggling or she's struggling because of how she's feeling. My instinct tells me it's more the first.

She says it all just got on top of her and once she fell behind she couldn't see a way out.

I've asked regularly about how things are going, but she just kept telling me everything was fine. I did have a feeling it might not be as 'fine' as she was making out but I'm shocked it's this bad.

She says she wants to keep studying maths at the same University and I do believe she is capable, she did very well in her a levels. I believe the difficulty has been more in the organisation.

I feel guilty that I haven't picked up on this sooner and that I accepted when she told me she was coping well, because tbh I expected her to have some struggles. I strongly suspect she has autism and have done for a number of years, yet noone else has ever mentioned it to me and as I say she coped in school/sixth form. I was probably providing more support than I realised in the day to day organisation of her life though. She definitely struggles socially.

She emailed her academic tutor last night to request a meeting when she gets back to campus. I can't imagine she's going to pass this year because it seem like she's missed so much. Will they let her resit?

I've also been looking at private autism assessments. I feel like maybe if she had a diagnosis she might be able to get a better insight into how she can cope and there may be support available.

Maybe this is something I should have looked into years ago, but it just felt like she ws coping with the processes we'd put in place and like it wasnt neccesary. But now she's been away from home and without my constant prompting she hasn't been able to keep these things up. I feel like I've failed her. I also feel like I'm doubting everything she has told me about her life at university.

We're going on holiday in a few days and her next term starts on the 24th, so I feel quite limited in what we can do now. When she gets up we're going to log back onto moodle and have a proper look at how much she has missed. And also go through her emails - she said she has had contact from the lecturers about missing lectures/tests but she just ignored them because she felt overwhelmed.

Sorry it's so long. Does anyone have any experience/advice? Either on the academic side regarding what is likely to happen. Or regarding the autism assessment.

Thanks you for reading, I know it's long

@Greyskiess Firstly, it is good that now you know and she has admitted it perhaps to herself too. Also that she has requested to see her tutor. Maths is very hard. If she is willing I absolutely would look to pay for a private diagnosis for her.

I can only tell you anecdotally as Ds is in his second year and this didn't happen to him but had friends in first year who failed one or two modules at the end of first year. These were the exams they sat in May. They were allowed to resit those modules I believe in August and then got their results just before they came back for second year.

One student failed a module again, he is now on a year out but will be resitting that module again this May when all the first years take their exams. First year for Ds didn't count toward his final grade for his degree but it is the building blocks for second year like maths would be for your DD.

Is she the type of person to get up, dust herself down and rise to a challenge? Once on Moodle you can see how many things she has missed and whether she can resit them but they usually have a capped mark of 40%. Plus the emails and what they say. There might be online videos of her lectures that she could catch up on too.

This isn't the end of everything, there will always be choices for her

We had this with ds in year 2. He had been missing lectures not looked at when work was due and then felt could not go in because he was behind. We supported him to speak to his tutor, he got extensions and then worked his socks off to pass the year. We contacted him every day, encouraged him to re engage and he did pass. For his final year we said we would not do this again, he had to take responsibility from the start. He has done so and is enjoying it much more. It might be that this degree is not right for your dd, but if she is capable and likes where she is it is worth understanding how far behind she is snd can she catch up enough to pass the year.

I work in student wellbeing. There will be an equivalent role in her department - find the info and reach out, book her a meeting for next week if poss (most unis have some closed days this week). She needs to speak to a GP and get a diagnosis if possible to support a mitigating circs application. It's not lost as she should have a retrieval opportunity in the summer anyway but speak to them to find out uni specific rules anyway. Good luck.

My nephew is probably on the spectrum. Long suspected but never addressed. Got four outstanding A levels.
He too went to uni to study maths but lasted a month and came home. Said it was too hard. I suspect social and organisational issues were actually the main factor.
He has applied to restart maths at a different uni this year and will be commuting.

My DD is in her first year. She struggled with a lecturer and wanted to quit. She has SEMH of which selective mutism is the main issue. She has had huge support from student services and the inclusion team. You will not be informed of anything unless your DD has ticked the contact box. They are classed as an independent adult. However a EHCP protects a ASD student from sanctions and allows extra time etc and is valid up to 25 if they struggle due to autism. Do you think your daughter would welcome an assessment?
A friends ASD son was at a RG university but very unhappy. He came home at the end of term two of the first year. He is now at a different university and will stay there for his PhD. He is reading Maths too. My daughter is at a tiny university. It might not suit everyone but she is not a party girl and it was right for her. 30,000 students would have been too noisy for her. She has settled down and is getting top marks.

Thank you so much for your replies.

@JuicyBanana yes I think she's quite resilient and if it's an option she will do what she needs to do to fix this. It sounds like there could be a long summer of studying ahead.

@mumonthehill I think daily contact will have to be the way forward here from now on too. It's my instinct to want to do that anyway but then I thought I was being ott and needed to give her some space to spread her wings. I'm glad your son is back on track.

Thank you @oscarcat99 i can't imagine there won't be a very long waiting list for nhs assessment but I'm willing to pay for a private assessment and I've emailed a place fairly local to her uni this morning. How late in the year can mitigating circumstances be applied for? We're going on holiday this week so she won't be able to get back to uni any earlier than the first day of term. I'll help her to identify the wellbeing contact and she'll email them today though.

@cptartapp im sorry to hear your nephew had similar difficulties. I hope he finds it easier next year. Dd said last night she definitely wants to stay at her current uni.

@FancyFran it sounds like your dd is doing great. I haven't mentioned it to dd yet but yes I think she would welcome and assessment. We've actually only directly mentioned autism once, but she knows she struggles with things in a way that not everyone does. I think neuro divergence is so much more 'mainstream' these days, that I don't suspect for one moment that she doesn't see these traits in herself.
DD actually is very sociable and enjoys being around people, she just struggles to maintain relationships because she can never quite figure people out. She's a really lovely girl (I know I'm biased) but it saddens me that she doesn't really have any friendships from school/sixth form because either she's chosen the wrong people or she's not being able to establish deep enough connections to make friendships long lasting. She does have a fairly recent boyfriend and he seems nice and she says he's been supporting her. I'm worried about it though, because I don't know him and he could be taking advantage of her, or he could really like her but he might get sick and I'm really concerned about how she'll deal with a breakup on top of everything else at the minute. There's been no indication of either of those things btw, they're just my worries.

Different time frames different places I imagine. For us it's around end of May for Sem 2 assessments but your wellbeing contact can guide you. While waiting for autism assessment, a bog standard depression and anxiety assessment would be sufficient for mits where I am. It's really common for poor mental health to become apparent in Y1 uni as students are away from their support network and coping mechanisms, and uni work has to be much more self driven than at school. Hope it works out.

If it helps my friend was diagnosed with ADHD at 57. She is sociable but better around men. She is very direct and driven. Not everyone's cup of tea. A dear friend to me though.
My DD was tested for ASD three times but her difficulties were down to SM through trauma. We had no idea about the trauma but ASD testing was the go to at her current school. Luckily her next school had a very insightful Head who questioned her anxiety. Her pathway could have been very different. Please ensure you look at all types of neuro diverse conditions. There are checks on the NHS website.
University is a big step for anyone. It changes us. What is done is done. She needs to reboot. She is young (how lovely is that?). Good luck.

Also, your DD will need to send the email and confirm if she is happy for them to copy you into comms as this wouldn't be allowed otherwise. For me, I'm happy for parents to attend a meeting with an overwhelmed kid so long as they're not overbearing and the kid wants them there, but mileage may vary!

If everything is too much this year, could she restart at a Uni closer to home and commute? I know a few with ASD who do this.

I had a similar crisis of confidence at a similar time of year as a 1st year student. I had been to the lectures, wasn't very organised with notes though, and my main issue was with the practicals. I was all for quitting!
My parents contacted my subject tutor and he was very good- even said he'd planned to drop out of uni himself . I did start to turn it around in the 3rd term, forced myself to get more organised.

Another girl on my course had a breakdown in the run up to finals. She was allowed to repeat the year and did well.

Can your dd speak to her tutor, get a plan in place?

A private autism assessment is definitely the way to go and as well remember once you have a diagnosis, your daughter can apply for a disabled students assessment from student finance. This will cover mentoring help with organisational skills at Uni. If the worst case scenario is that she starts the first year again with these things in place, in the long run it might not be a bad thing

Hi, OP -

I am in STEM with long experience on Mit Circs committees and DH is in Maths. I am sorry that your DD is struggling, but her situation is by no means uncommon.

It is great that she has (finally) contacted her personal tutor. Maths is one of the most cumulative of subjects, and laying a good foundation in Y1.is essential. Beyond a concern for her marks, your DD needs to (eventually) get this right to have a good experience going forward. Many students stagger out with a 2.2 or a Third never having got the basics right, and don’t get much satisfaction doing it. My observations of SN students in STEM —- I realise your DD may or may not be one —- is that they may get particularly stressed when they feel they have missed some background. Your DD’s tutor can help her solve her current issues with an eye on the long view, especially if DD emphasises that this is her own perspective.

It is great that you can and will go private. I agree screening for anxiety, depression, etc is also wise. Is your DD registered with a local GP at uni? If so has she/would she also consult them? They are very familiar with the stress/anxiety/depression spectrum and should be able to help.

Each uni has its own Mit Circs regulations. It is important to follow the instructions carefully. Diagnosed anxiety/depression usually also constitute Mit Circs.

The School or uni may have recommendations for students who are granted Mit Circs on the basis of unresolved health problems. It is very important to follow them. Not doing so may be grounds for a negative outcome to future MC petitions based on the same problems. It happens at my place, albeit with warnings.

My big concern is always Health First. It’a a sadly brutal world. Students need to do their best and for that they need to be in good shape. Whatever it takes.

To answer an explicit question, exams can be retaken in Aug/Sept if a student has passed enough credits. However the recorded mark is usually capped. One option many offer in mitigation is Resit as First Attempt, which uncaps this mark. But unless the instructions on the form suggest that the student suggest their remedy —- which I have never heard of —- I think bringing this up would be a very bad idea. Let the committee decide the mitigation.

Best wishes to your DD. Perhaps reassure her that this happens to many Maths students and most of them recover

PS I agree with @oscarcat99 rhat reaching out to the student wellbeing officer in the School may also be a good idea.

Also, and I feel bad saying this, if DD’s tutor is available to meet towards the end

Posted prematurely

of next week, before term starts, and if her residence hall is open then, could she cut the holiday short and go up to uni early? Taking extra time to get herself organised might pay dividends. She really must prioritise her academics right now.

I've dropped you a PM

Thank you so much for your replies.
We've been through her moodle and there is a lot she has missed! We've also been through her emails and although there are a couple from the maths department noting her lack of engagement there is no mention of resitting failed tests. It's quite confusing for me tbh, the format of the maths degree is very different from what I'm familiar with myself. They have regular online quizzes and small end-of-module tests (the 'modules' are 8 credits each and part of a larger 40 credit module) and then 2 final tests next term, which make up 50% of her final mark. I'm fairly certain you must have to pass each individual test to be able to pass the full module but this doesn't seem to be actually written down anywhere.

We've calculated how many weeks she'd have between finishing her last modules next term and resits in the summer and it seems enough time to cover the content she's missed. But we definitely need clarity from the academic side of things as to what she has to achieve to even be eligible for a resit.

I kind of agree @Rafaellarooboo that restarting the whole year with a better understanding and a good plan of support in place might be the better option. But again she needs guidance from the university regarding whether this is possible.

Thank you for your valuable messages @poetryandwine and @oscarcat99 . I've just had a look at the exceptional circumstances form and it seems straightforward. Dd is registered with a GP local to the university, I'll ask her to make an appointment for when she is back. Dd and I both agree with you @poetryandwine that it's not just about passing she needs a good understanding of the content so she doesn't start 2nd year already behind (another reason it might not be a bad idea to just restart the year). Interesting that you say about some students finding it very stressful if they've missed some background, because that is exactly what has happened here.

@Mogginsthemog thank you for the positive story.

@FancyFran dd also generally finds friendships with boys easier.

Clarity will bring relief, OP, if only because your DD and you know what you have to work with.

At the unis I am familiar with, formal Resits as First Attempts are only offered on end of term or end of year final exams. Our own mitigation for missed or underperformed term time work is to waive the mark(s). If you think all the mini-tests you write of must be passed, surely there is a mechanism for allowing more than one attempt? Or have some deadlines been missed? Sorry, I am not familiar with this system. It sounds intriguing though.

Again, best wishes

I'm fairly certain you must have to pass each individual test to be able to pass the full module but this doesn't seem to be actually written down anywhere.

@Greyskiess have you / your DD checked her Student Handbook (may be called something different)? This should detail the ins and outs of assessments. Apologies if she / you have already found it and it is this document which doesn't make the process any clearer (in which case, A Human is definitely required, so to speak).

I think to an extent first year can be like this. I remember nearly flunking my first year exams and coming home to study intensively as I couldn’t knuckle down.

Loads of friends had resits.

I think you are doing everything right. Student support is the way to go. If the autism assessment will help can you get it privately?

If your daughter is to stay at the same Uni doing the same course, what does she think will change next year? Assuming she can pass the exams to get to year 2.
Not meaning to sound unkind, I would put it to her much more gently. But my son dropped out of Uni part way through year 2 which had difficult funding implications- would have been better if he has admitted the course was not right for him in year 1. He ended up switching to a different course, one he could more easily cope with.
If your daughter is on the spectrum she may struggle with change, as my son does. I think she needs to access a lot of support from the Uni and also open her mind to the possibility that she may be on the wrong course if she is struggling so much even to attend lectures. Maybe she actually has started to hate it, but won’t admit it to herself.

However a EHCP protects a ASD student from sanctions and allows extra time etc and is valid up to 25 if they struggle due to autism. Do you think your daughter would welcome an assessment?

EHCPs do not operate at university or other higher education settings, so no point in looking at this. However with a diagnosis she would be entitled to disabled students allowance and arrangements - these are arranged with the university direct and a package will be agreed. It can include things like organisational support so would be helpful.

On a separate note, @FancyFran as you may know, but just for others reading, selective mutism is not rooted in trauma as in abuse, it's rooted in anxiety and/or phobia. The overlap with autism is very common - they think about 10 percent of autistic people have SM, but no firm figures yet on what percentage of people with SM are actually autistic. I suspect it's high, esp in girls whose autism is often overlooked even without SM as an added complication to the assessment. Happy to speak via DM if you are interested in any further info.

Just wanted to add - my son also had 4 good A levels. That almost made it harder I think for him to accept that he wasn’t coping with the course content.

In your daughters situation, if the situation doesn’t improve much after she tries getting support from the Uni, I think she should consider a change of course or a change of Uni to one close to home that she could maybe commute to. Something should change.

@DrRuthGalloway well I have been given totally different information for the last seven years! My daughter's medical notes all say trauma.
My nephew is ASD with a EHCP but is in a college not university so perhaps that is why his plan is used.

@FancyFran SM is very misunderstood. You can develop mutism after trauma or abuse - but this is sudden onset and in all spaces. For example a famous American writer became mute for several years after being raped by her stepfather aged 8. That type of mutism is called traumatic mutism.

Selective mutism is more to do with familial inherited anxiety. If there is a medical service still perpetuating the trauma myth please do PM me as the national charity SMiRA spends a lot of time debunking this.

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Myth-Management--Myth--2-Selective-Mutism-Is-Caused-By-Trauma.html?soid=1110877244929&aid=p9qiXHo85Cc