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Higher education

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Original poster

Durham - deeply disappointed child - any admissions insight

662 replies

albertandlilylight · 30/03/2023 23:29

First choice university by a mile and really really wants to go there and college system would suit very well. 43 (IB) in predicted grades, am told by school very good school reference and personal statement. However, got an offer for a course did not apply for and for which has no interest. Don't understand at all. Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this. Anyone got any insight to how Durham are offering and is there anything that can be done from here?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
26
Dodgeitornot · 04/04/2023 09:17

@Puffalicious It's very well known that it's an Oxbridge rejects uni. The students poke fun at it a lot.

twistyizzy · 04/04/2023 09:44

WomblingTree86 · 01/04/2023 23:05

So why not send to a grammar school or good state school if it is so much better and you don't have to pay?

Show quote history

Because in a lot of areas there aren't any grammar schools and the local comps are frankly shit.

ACJane · 04/04/2023 09:55

The Oxbridge reject cohort is quite different these days to in my era - and I say this as an Oxbridge reject.

There are countless incredibly smart A star students with a raft of extra and super curricular gems to their names who Oxbridge has too little room for now given the number of international students and the widening participation programmes.

I just don't think being an Oxbridge reject is a big deal now - 4/5 applicants (or something like that) get rejected and all of them probably had all A star predictions.

When I look at those who were rejected at my dc's (private) school, I would imagine in my generation most of them would have got a place.
I'm talking about very bright, very passionate about their subject and very personable kids.

Dodgeitornot · 04/04/2023 10:17

@ACJane Oh I don't think it's a bad thing at all. It's a very respected uni and the kids that go there have usually been rejected from Oxbridge for no other reason than space. They can't admit everyone. Durham does seem to keep extending their spaces and students have been very vocal about problems with accomodation in the last couple of years.

KittyMcKitty · 04/04/2023 11:18

There are several threads on Mumsnet talking about how smart and talented Oxbridge rejects are. I’m sure this is true but it’s important to remember that there are equally smart applications who chose not to apply to Oxbridge- some may even be “better”. Oxbridge is not the be all and end all!

KittyMcKitty · 04/04/2023 11:19

Also there are many Durham offer holders who have not applied to Oxbridge.

GoldenRuby · 04/04/2023 11:58

@KittyMcKitty well said. This includes my DD who chose not to apply to Oxbridge as the courses were not right for her. She is in her first year at Durham doing CHSS after securing 3 A stars in her A level exams last summer.

SweetSakura · 04/04/2023 12:06

Exactly @@KittyMcKitty . I didn't apply to Oxbridge because Durham offered the course I wanted , there were specific modules only Durham and a couple of other universities offered that particularly appealed to me.

I went onto law school after Durham, and it was stuffed full of Oxbridge graduates and I came top of my year, so ability wise I have no doubt I could have held my own there. I loved the course I took at Durham and also loved the city.

Ooonafoo · 04/04/2023 13:23

ACJane · 04/04/2023 09:55

The Oxbridge reject cohort is quite different these days to in my era - and I say this as an Oxbridge reject.

There are countless incredibly smart A star students with a raft of extra and super curricular gems to their names who Oxbridge has too little room for now given the number of international students and the widening participation programmes.

I just don't think being an Oxbridge reject is a big deal now - 4/5 applicants (or something like that) get rejected and all of them probably had all A star predictions.

When I look at those who were rejected at my dc's (private) school, I would imagine in my generation most of them would have got a place.
I'm talking about very bright, very passionate about their subject and very personable kids.

do you think the widening participation programmes you mention have prevented those very bright, very passionate about their subject and very personable kids at your dc’s private school getting a place?

Would it surprise you that kids accessed through the widening participation programmes are as bright, passionate and personable - or more likely even more so - if they achieved a place than the kids at your dc’s private school who were rejected?

ACJane · 04/04/2023 13:30

I did not say and do not think any of those things. If you read my post without infering and making assumptions, it is entirely and intentionally neutrally worded as I did not want to enter into or prompt a discussion of the merits of widening participation.

As it happens I'm fully supportive of this and fully understand how it works to level the playing field but hey feel free to jump on a neutral post if you fancy.

KittyMcKitty · 04/04/2023 13:41

@Ooonafoo exactly! There seems to be an undertone that it’s the widening participation thickos who are stopping deserving children getting a place. If people chose to send children to private school (and you need to be immensely privileged to be doing this - even if you feel you’re making sacrifices) but don’t say your children are being discriminated against.

I live in Bucks - my children attend / attended a grammar school - they and I are well aware of the privilege this has afforded them and we all support students being given contextual offers.

My dd has firmed Durham - she absolutely loves it (and has no interest in Oxbridge) but is well aware of the fact that’s it’s student profile is skewed towards those from private and grammar schools and very nearly didn’t even go to the open day because of this.

Durham, Oxbridge and the majority of RG unis are way over subscribed- no dc, no matter what their predicted / achieved grades can assume they are special enough to get an offer. My children were well aware of this (their school also stressed it) - if anyone is not preparing their dc for potential rejection they are doing them a misservice!

anyway that’s my rant over.

Ooonafoo · 04/04/2023 14:03

ACJane · 04/04/2023 13:30

I did not say and do not think any of those things. If you read my post without infering and making assumptions, it is entirely and intentionally neutrally worded as I did not want to enter into or prompt a discussion of the merits of widening participation.

As it happens I'm fully supportive of this and fully understand how it works to level the playing field but hey feel free to jump on a neutral post if you fancy.

Maybe your intention was that your comments were neutral - however the actual impact on other posters was not neutral.

Maybe reflect on your words and feedback in the context of unconscious bias.

ACJane · 04/04/2023 14:14

Oh yeh thanks for pointing out my unconscious bias even though I have now said the exact opposite of what you're accusing me of.

What utter bollocks. It's ridiculous to accuse someone of unconscious bias after a NEUTRAL comment on a website. You don't know me or anything about me and my circumstances other than my child is at a private school. Where is the actual evidence I think anything negative at all about widening participation.

There is zero comment on anyone who gets a place at Oxbridge's intelligence in my post. The fact is all I actually said was that there are bright children who do not get places. I made no assertion - implied or not - about those students who do get in via widening participation's capabilities.

Do you have unconscious bias against parents who you know nothing about whose child went to private school? Seems that way to me.

10nc · 04/04/2023 14:15

??? ACJane did not say anything about WP though. She was just saying that there are far more students with top grades than Oxbridge can accommodate and that this perception of Durham as an 'Oxbridge reject uni' is very unfair. Blimey.

30 years ago less than 20% applied to unis at all. Greater applicant numbers these days are not only due to WP. The population has expanded and it's compulsory to be in education until 18 now.

Ooonafoo · 04/04/2023 14:33

ACJane · 04/04/2023 14:14

Oh yeh thanks for pointing out my unconscious bias even though I have now said the exact opposite of what you're accusing me of.

What utter bollocks. It's ridiculous to accuse someone of unconscious bias after a NEUTRAL comment on a website. You don't know me or anything about me and my circumstances other than my child is at a private school. Where is the actual evidence I think anything negative at all about widening participation.

There is zero comment on anyone who gets a place at Oxbridge's intelligence in my post. The fact is all I actually said was that there are bright children who do not get places. I made no assertion - implied or not - about those students who do get in via widening participation's capabilities.

Do you have unconscious bias against parents who you know nothing about whose child went to private school? Seems that way to me.

Do you have unconscious bias against parents who you know nothing about whose child went to private school? Seems that way to me.

No I don’t because I have put own 4 children through private schools myself (as well as state and grammar) all with a wide range of abilities and needs that I have been fortunate enough to be able to meet.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 04/04/2023 16:57

Ooonafoo · 04/04/2023 14:03

Maybe your intention was that your comments were neutral - however the actual impact on other posters was not neutral.

Maybe reflect on your words and feedback in the context of unconscious bias.

Show quote history

+1 Keep pedalling @ACJane

ACJane · 04/04/2023 17:31

This is genuinely ridiculous. I am not backpedalling.

FACT: I thought and think positively about WP (but didn't say so and kept things neutral so as to not derail the thread...ironically) but hey maybe you know better about what I think than I do. How can you possibly tell me what I think?

I will say I categorically do not and have never thought that WP students are 'taking' others' places. I fully support WP. I categorically do not think that the private school pupils I mentioned must be cleverer and somehow better than anyone else.

You are absolutely getting offended unecessarily.

cantkeepawayforever · 04/04/2023 17:39

Tbf, I found it difficult to read your original post neutrally.

Neutral is:
’these privately educated students, though bright, are not necessarily getting offers / places in today’s much more competitive environment where they are coming up against many more suitable and well-qualified applicants’

rather than posting something along the lines of
’these privately educated students, though they are all brilliant, aren’t getting places because of international / WP applicants’

Shelefttheweb · 04/04/2023 17:50

I will say I categorically do not and have never thought that WP students are 'taking' others' places.

Widening access schemes quite clearly do ‘take’ places from others. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise when you have the situation like in Edinburgh where NOT ONE Scottish student without a widening access ‘flag’ was even considered for Law.

Let’s not pretend otherwise.

The questions we should be asking are: should there be more places for home students and how do we make applications fair?

KittyMcKitty · 04/04/2023 17:52

@cantkeepawayforever exactly it wasn’t neutral - it othered widening participation applicants presenting them as separate from the countless incredibly smart A star students with a raft of extra and super curricular gems to their names who Oxbridge has too little room for now.

Your intention may or may not have been to do this but the result is the same and to a student holding a contextual offer would come over that they were less worthy.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 04/04/2023 17:53

cantkeepawayforever · 04/04/2023 17:39

Tbf, I found it difficult to read your original post neutrally.

Neutral is:
’these privately educated students, though bright, are not necessarily getting offers / places in today’s much more competitive environment where they are coming up against many more suitable and well-qualified applicants’

rather than posting something along the lines of
’these privately educated students, though they are all brilliant, aren’t getting places because of international / WP applicants’

This.

cantkeepawayforever · 04/04/2023 17:55

Scotland is a difficult case where there are strictly limited ‘home’ places in a highly rated university, and the rates paid for these students are very low.

One way of making more okaces for Scittish students viable would be to raise the amount paid, so that there was no difference to the university between admitting a Scottish and a RUK student. That’s a Government decision, not a university one.

In the rest of the UK, there are - AFAIK - no courses where WP students take all the places, because WO and ‘open’ students are more equal - no cap, and no budget impact.

Shelefttheweb · 04/04/2023 17:55

One the oversubscription point though: students get five ‘applications’ but can only go to one place. There could be enough places for every student but if every student used all five applications there would 400% more applications than places.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 04/04/2023 17:57

Shelefttheweb · 04/04/2023 17:50

I will say I categorically do not and have never thought that WP students are 'taking' others' places.

Widening access schemes quite clearly do ‘take’ places from others. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise when you have the situation like in Edinburgh where NOT ONE Scottish student without a widening access ‘flag’ was even considered for Law.

Let’s not pretend otherwise.

The questions we should be asking are: should there be more places for home students and how do we make applications fair?

They are not 'taking' them, they are being access to places they were previously denied.

Ooonafoo · 04/04/2023 17:59

@ACJane If everyone is equal why was it necessary for you to emphasise that the rejected bright, passionate and personable kids were from a private school?

Why was it not enough to just state that lots of bright, passionate and personable kids are rejected? That would be neutral?

Also it’s rather telling that your response to someone else providing gentle constructive feedback on the impact of your words is to become defensive, aggressive, shout and swear and personally attack.

A bit irregular and impolite?