I’ve done the research, drafted the PS - is this normal?

[Weddedtomywashingmachine]

DS in year 12 asked me to help him research universities to apply to as his school was nagging at him to get the ball rolling. He knows what he wants to study and as it is quite niche, that narrowed it down.

I got obsessed with rather into it and have now spent many, many, many hours sifting through unis and drilling down into modules. I’ve given him a VERY detailed paper setting out the pros and cons of each course, of each uni that offers it, accommodation options and costs, travel time, graduate prospects, student satisfaction ratings and the like. I’ve also done a first draft of his personal statement and booked open days for us to go to. DS is very grateful and is looking over the paper over the course of the next few weeks.

When I mentioned this to a friend, she was horrified and said she just left her DS to it. Another friend thinks it’s wonderful and has asked me to help her DD.

Did I do the right thing? Uni is expensive and I want my DS to have the info he needs to make the right choice for him. I emphasise that where he applies to will be up to him but at least he has all the info he needs now without having to ferret around in the interstices of uni websites.

Yes ,thanks .I'll disagree with all the comments about huge disservice and infantalising.

I guess we'll agree to disagree but in my two decades of working with university applicants both pre/during application and teaching UG students I can confidently say that those who are less likely to thrive are those who have been passive in their journey to university.

I've also seen young people become inspired during their research and end up studying something they didn't even know existed. It's a shame when young people have their horizons narrowed

Yep, I also spent 10 years working in HE, and the students with over-involved parents were not typically the ones who thrived. Of course, there are always exceptions on either side.

@amberedover the OP says she even booked the open days. What input as her DS actually had? And 10 open days seems quite excessive.

Yep, I also spent 10 years working in HE, and the students with over-involved parents were not typically the ones who thrived. Of course, there are always exceptions on either side.

Oh of course! I did my PhD on career decision making/university choice and what was clear was that those young people who were actively involved in the research process made more informed decisions and when asked to reflect on the process many appreciated the opportunity to expand their horizons and discover jobs, courses and universities that they hadn't heard of.

What an interesting focus for a PhD! You are obviously more well qualified than most to comment on this topic!!

I was a careers adviser before working in HE and becoming an academic. The bit I loved most was supporting young people make decisions about higher education. It was very rewarding!

Highlighting factors to be considered is very different from presenting a detailed shortlist and a draft personal statement. Maybe the ds will ignore his mum and do his own thing..I hope he does. That doesn't change my view that the OP has massively overstepped here.

I've taught quite a few undergrads (more than quite a few) who seem incapable of taking responsibility for themselves. To the extent that they've been in danger of failing - by being so disorganised & irresponsible that they're basically not doing the course. They are overwhelmingly young men.

And I note in group work that it is almost always the young women in each small group who organise, keep the diary, contact e about arrangements.

I have often wondered what their dynamic with their mothers is - I'm beginning to see how they get this way ...

And elsewhere on MN, we have heartfelt posts from women married to men who seem incapable of being adults.

I guess we'll agree to disagree but in my two decades of working with university applicants both pre/during application and teaching UG students I can confidently say that those who are less likely to thrive are those who have been passive in their journey to university.

Well, I'll agree with you @VioletaDelValle and add my 3 decades of teaching undergrads, and several 3 year terms serving as Admissions Tutor, and 20 years of interviewing prospective students ...

I know ppl think the OP is in the wrong - talk of massively overstepping ,infantisling her son -and I'm sure they'll carry on thinking this .

But none of really know the situation and I think posters are extrapolating too much and producing an offspring who will struggle /fail to thrive /remain immature .

I think the OP knows what she is doing and she doesn't come across to me as an over involved parent .I think she knows her son ,that she is helping him with this and ,if you read all her posts ,is well aware how to raise an incdependent soul .I'm going to copy some of her posts below because I don't think many people have taken them into account .

no danger of him being a man baby thank goodness. Been doing all his own washing and ironing for last two years, cleans his own bedroom and bathroom, is expected to cook for the family once a week

I dropped him at two of the open days and went shopping. Plan to do the same with the others. He said he was one of the few there without parents in tow!

. I work full time, have three DC, care for my elderly mum and coach a girl's football team at the weekend!

Well, of course you don't think the OP is wrong, @amberedover, because it sounds like you were probably an overinvolved parent too!

There is no need for you to copy and paste the OP's previous posts, as we have all read them already. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but that isn't going to change the view of the majority here, who think that micromanaging almost adult children to this extent is far more likely to be damaging than helpful.

A number of us have also said hat she would have been far better using her time accompanying him to Open Days as there are often aspects which are specifically aimed at parents.

That is a far better use of her time than writing the PS and shortlisting unis - that's the job of he person who is applying.

as we have all read them already. - annoying of me to C&P ,I know .Surprised that you know that everyone has read them .That's so far from my experience on MN ,but you obviously have superior knowledge .

Yes ,I have my own views about what constitutes micromanaging .The OP's posts don't suggest that to me . But we all have our own parenting styles .

So in respect of university applications what would you call micromanaging @amberedover?

Well, if people can't be arsed to read even the OP's posts, they're hardly likely to read your cut&paste versions, are they? So yes, it's likely that those reading your posts will have at least read the OP's posts, even if they have skipped over the rest of the thread.

Good question toomuchlaundry and as it brings into focus the general accusations of infantalising and micromanaging which people seem to think constitutes how the OP acts in all areas of her son's life and which will therefore mean that he won't thrive at university ,wont develop into an adult etc.
The OP has put a lot of effort into helping her son apply (and I still don't think it's micromanaging) but her posts suggest that she is encouraging and succeeding in him being independent and responsible in other areas of his life .
I honestly don't see that the OP has been misguided here -there is more to parenting than university applications .
And I'm also of the view that just because an 18 year old is not very interested in researching universities doesn't mean that they will have a similar lack of motivation to do research connected to a degree subject that they study .IMO they are different types of research and demand different skill sets .

Well, if people can't be arsed to read even the OP's posts, they're hardly likely to read your cut&paste versions, are they? - posters often post and it's obvious they've not scrolled back .Quoting all the OP's posts and putting them in one post might avoid that .

So yes, it's likely that those reading your posts will have at least read the OP's posts, even if they have skipped over the rest of the thread.
so no I don't think I agree with that premise ,

So in respect of university applications what would you call micromanaging @amberedover?

I think I'd need to know more before I called it micromanaging .To be privy to conversations btwn OP and son ,if I knew there was no or v little discussion - "here's the list ,I've arranged the OD " type of exchange then I'd be thinking micromanagement .I'd also want to be aware of the relationship btwn the mum and the son ,how assertive the son was .
If the OP is restricting the son from doing his own research or not discussing her findings with him then I'd be worried about micromanagement .

Poor kids. My children would have hated an adult doing the research and advising them where they should go. They absolutely didn’t want me to tell them. They regretted one or two of their choices in the end (but luckily got into their first choice ‘top’ universities). It was their choice to make and their mistakes to make too. They also wanted to do open days on their own so I let them of course.

Some parents and teachers are an embarrassment. The more I read here, the more do I feel like I was a good parent and proud of my kids; keep the posts coming!

Agree. Every time I start to think more generously towards the private school enablers (teachers, parents, careers advisors etc) along comes a post like this and I realise why I feel the way I do. It’s the most repulsive of leg-ups.

Enabling Hugo & Minty by writing their PSs, presenting them with hours of tailored research - no wonder these kids end up entitled, unable to perform simple research required for their degree and work. Unwilling and unable to motivate themselves to do the work doesn’t bode well for a career.

I'm not really thinking about this from a parenting point of view.

I'm thinking about situations like this from the POV of someone who teaches undergrads, and has to deal with the minority of undergrads (generally young men) who seem directionless, unable to take responsibility, and somehow just a bit gormless.

They miss tutorial appointments, they don't answer emails, they don't do the work unless reminded, they forget to even bring pen & paper to class (that was this morning's unprepared male student). They're terribly nice, but they really do make me wonder how they were raised.

Luckily it's usually only a handful each year, but it's that handful - maybe 10% - that suck up more of my time than all the others put together. It always feels like a peculiar form of male entitlement - I pity their future female colleagues.

When I was 18 I decided that I wanted to do Combined Studies: Dutch (based on a 4 day holiday to Holland) , Philosophy (even thought I had never read a book on philosophy in my life ..and when I did I hated it) and Psychology (because it sounded interesting but I knew nothing about it). I wrote some garbled shit in my personal statement but got plenty of offers anyway. I went to see 1 university but no open days. I didn't know how to organise myself or when they were.

Luckily, I didn't get the required grades and things turned out OK (no Dutch or Philosophy) but I wish my parents had been a bit more involved in my university application. I was just all over the place at 18. I had lots of stupid, half formed ideas. I had no idea about accommodation and turned up in Northern Ireland with literally nowhere to stay that night.

But I went on to be a good student and got a good degree. So, being able to do all that organisational stuff is not a prerequisite for succeeding at university.

I am sure many 17/18 year olds can handle the university process themselves and that's great, leave them to it. Others need a bit more help. I don't see why it;s a problem if their parents help them out.

@mellicauli there are different types of support though. Choosing the universities and writing their PS for them, with no real input from the student is too much support.

DS talked to us about the degree he wanted to do and why, researched which universities he liked the look of and drafted his PS which we (and school) looked at.

DH has also been to some open and offer days with DS. So we have been there for guidance and support, not let him go totally off piste, but the majority of it has come from DS

I'm not aware of any parents on here advocating that kids should be given no support with their uni applications. Most of us who have been through this stage have probably supported quite a lot, otherwise we wouldn't be here hanging around on MN HE threads!

The difference here is that most of us think that the process should be driven and led by the young person themselves, with parental support and guidance as appropriate. The OP seems to have taken over completely and she is driving it instead of her ds.