I’ve done the research, drafted the PS - is this normal?

[Weddedtomywashingmachine]

DS in year 12 asked me to help him research universities to apply to as his school was nagging at him to get the ball rolling. He knows what he wants to study and as it is quite niche, that narrowed it down.

I got obsessed with rather into it and have now spent many, many, many hours sifting through unis and drilling down into modules. I’ve given him a VERY detailed paper setting out the pros and cons of each course, of each uni that offers it, accommodation options and costs, travel time, graduate prospects, student satisfaction ratings and the like. I’ve also done a first draft of his personal statement and booked open days for us to go to. DS is very grateful and is looking over the paper over the course of the next few weeks.

When I mentioned this to a friend, she was horrified and said she just left her DS to it. Another friend thinks it’s wonderful and has asked me to help her DD.

Did I do the right thing? Uni is expensive and I want my DS to have the info he needs to make the right choice for him. I emphasise that where he applies to will be up to him but at least he has all the info he needs now without having to ferret around in the interstices of uni websites.

There's helping out and doing it for them...

It sounds to me as if your DS doesn't really have the skillset or level of personal motivation necessary to succeed in university.

He's too laid back to do his own research or compose his own personal statement, and like his friends, he sees university as three years to be spent primarily dossing around.

Would a gap year be in order?

I have one who is at Oxbridge cos she forgot the deadline to apply anywhere else.

I contemplated micromanaging her into looking at other open days and filling in the rest of her UCAS slots but decided to leave her to it.

This is actually true.

You must have nerves of steel.

@mathanxiety I think that's unfair. We don't know why he didn't do his Personal Statement. I have an immense amount of sympathy with young people faced with the PS.

It's the worst kind of assignment: we want you to show off (but don't show off too much obvs), we want you to show how unique you are (in a sea of 300,000 people who have all been obliged by law to be at school for the last 13 years), we want your personality to shine through (bearing in mind that we regard some personalities as better than others but we won't spell that out), we want you to be passionate for your subject (even though you are still very young and probably haven't quite worked out what you want), And don't be cliched. Or talk down to us. Or use quotes. Or say "ever since I was a child".

Yes, but university isn't a compulsory activity is it?

No, it's no compulsory. But it's kind of a middle-class protectionism, isn't it? Keep the outsiders out of middle class enclaves by having a list of arcane rules to trip up the unwary.

He didn't do his PS yet because it's only March in year 12.

Give the kid a break - the majority don't start thinking seriously about their PS until Autumn term of Y13

Perhaps.

But it's not as if people don't have access to a global network of information at their fingertips where they might be able to find out what is expected in a PS...

I agree probably this generation have more help than any other before. But it doesn't give you everything..an educated parent would be able to say, don't say that, it's a bit of a cliched/obvious point to make. It would be difficult to source that sort of thing with a few googles.

This is true.
Kid might have changed his mind altogether by the time his actual deadline comes along, in what, ten months' time? And that's entirely his prerogative.

I didn't get involved. I did read it but didn't have much to say. It didn't make much sense to me really anyway to behonest.

You are far, far too involved. Whilst it’s fine to advise your child, take them to open days, answer their questions etc. you shouldn’t be organising a 17/18 year old’s plans for them. Micromanaging on the level you’ve described is insane.

Every word of this. PS is so hard to navigate for kids from underprivileged backgrounds or in state schools that do FA to help

@mellicauli

This and the next post by the OP made me think the DS isn't really all that pushed about university.

Cursory research, lack of engagement in research - I suppose it depends on your degree, but you have to apply yourself to a project that matters.

This is the next post.

Some kids benefit from a year away from the school environment, which gives them the space to consider what they want and decide how to get it for themselves. Working at a lowly job can focus the mind on the benefits of university too.

I actually enjoyed researching uni courses. I made detailed notes etc. I then sat back and let my DC do their own research. Strangely enough they came to almost exactly the same conclusions as myself as to which courses they would apply to.

I'm really glad I'd done the research as it meant I could be confident in their choice, and not be wondering if they were on the best course available to them. After all, I'm going to be providing finances which I could have spend on nice holidays for me so I need to know they're getting value for money.

I wouldn't do the PS though. School/college provide much better advice on that than I could, and my DC or more articulate than myself. They also know their subject and themselves better than me. It's called a person statement for a reason. DD did have someone look over hers though and then ignored all their sound advice

I don't think it's wise to leave a 16/17 year old to decide on such a big thing without guidance, and while I enjoyed the hours of research I did, I couldn't be bothered to do it all for someone else's DCz

Maybe this could be your new hobby, OP, and you could publish your own guide to universities!

DD1 did her own research. Wrote her own PS without me. I never saw it. She applied to Oxford. DD2 was a bit more uncertain. I have her a few bullet point ideas. She write her own. Frankly if schools give a clear steer of what to write it’s pretty easy. I don’t get all the anxt! We know the majority of universities do not weight it anyway. The high flyers really should be able to write a PS. I truly don’t see it as needing the nuances described above. Way too difficult and unnecessary.

However and Dc that cannot write a few hundred words to say why they want a course and what they have done to support the application is not really a great applicant. Parents do need to accept university isn’t for all. Dc might need a year to mature.

Full of typos above, but you get the gist.

I have to say I have some sympathy with the OP. My DS was just not capable of doing this stuff in Y12. He asked me to help and I did a list of unis offering his course for him, with entry requirements, how far away, whether they offered the course structure he preferred etc. He then read up on the course content. He didn't want to go to open days but we visited a few places on spec, after which he decided where he wanted to apply. I think it was only after the first of those visits (which happened to be Exeter) that he really started to understand what uni might be about. Before that it was all quite abstract and bewildering.

He went to two offer holder days and chose his firm and insurance. I took him to one, DH took him to the other and we left him to it once we got there, at his request.

Re the PS I helped him with a plan for it, he wrote it, school reviewed it and then I did.

He was similarly at sea with all the stuff around student finance, applying for accommodation, bank account and uni admin. I helped him with a lot of that too. I don't think he would have got to uni without all the support from me in Y12 and Y13 but now he is in his first year, doing well and enjoying himself. Being able to manage the application process independently is not a prerequisite for coping with university life.

DD is much more mature and independent but having seen the list I did for DS she has asked for something similar. She hasn't decided on a subject yet, so I have suggested 5 unis to visit at open days, all of which are not too far away, do at least 2 of the 3 courses she is interested in, should have good subject talks, and the dates work. Once she gets into her stride with her application I will probably have very little input and that's fine.

I think some kids find it extremely intimidating researching university courses and just don't know where to start. I wish I had had someone to help me.

I'm really struggling to understand how someone intelligent enough to do a university degree could be "not capable" of finding and filtering basic information about university courses on the Internet. The research and analytical skills required to do this are pretty basic tbh.

And if it is a question of maturity, rather than intelligence, then how is a young person who lacks the maturity in Y12 to be able to do basic research for themselves going to be able to cope with living away from home, studying independently and managing everything for themselves only a year or so later?

And if it is not down to a lack of intelligence or a lack of maturity, but rather a lack of motivation, is that young person really well advised to be going off to university to rack up tens of thousands of pounds in debt to do a degree that they aren't really that bothered about?

I am not having a go here, but I genuinely don't get it!

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves I get to teach these "bewildered' boys. Sometimes they come right. But sometimes they remain bewildered and basically expecting all the women around them - me, other female academic and administrative staff and worse of all, their female student peers - to organise their lives for them.

It's interesting how many stories parents are telling about organised daughters, and bewildered sons. Some of these boys are not ready for university.

Not even the most clever and motivated ‘oxbridge’ kids I know had started their PS in the March of Y12. How the hell do we know if this boy is capable of applying, clever enough etc. He hasn’t been given a chance!!! So many judgments so early. It’s astonishing. Give him till the summer at least.

Over invested parents and immature DS. I’m not surprised he’s not capable. But yes, too early for ps. Not too early to look at courses.

“I have to say I have some sympathy with the OP. My DS was just not capable of doing this stuff in Y12”

My story very similar to yours @SoTedious and I also researched and shortlisted courses for my DS. And helped with PS, student finance and all the uni admin last year (when he was in Y13). He is now in his first year at Cambridge though, thriving and completely independent.

“Not even the most clever and motivated ‘oxbridge’ kids I know had started their PS in the March of Y12.“

My DS (now at Cambridge) was advised by his school to do a first draft in Feb of Y12 actually @ProposedWarning. It was very useful because it made him realise that he had not done enough ‘super curricular’ work at that stage - and he then had 7 months to put that right