I’ve done the research, drafted the PS - is this normal?

[Weddedtomywashingmachine]

DS in year 12 asked me to help him research universities to apply to as his school was nagging at him to get the ball rolling. He knows what he wants to study and as it is quite niche, that narrowed it down.

I got obsessed with rather into it and have now spent many, many, many hours sifting through unis and drilling down into modules. I’ve given him a VERY detailed paper setting out the pros and cons of each course, of each uni that offers it, accommodation options and costs, travel time, graduate prospects, student satisfaction ratings and the like. I’ve also done a first draft of his personal statement and booked open days for us to go to. DS is very grateful and is looking over the paper over the course of the next few weeks.

When I mentioned this to a friend, she was horrified and said she just left her DS to it. Another friend thinks it’s wonderful and has asked me to help her DD.

Did I do the right thing? Uni is expensive and I want my DS to have the info he needs to make the right choice for him. I emphasise that where he applies to will be up to him but at least he has all the info he needs now without having to ferret around in the interstices of uni websites.

@LaLaFlottes but you don't write their application for them! How will they cope if they have to do an interview?

And I don't think anyone on here has advocated no parental input, support and guidance, being a sounding board is fine. Doing all the research and application process, not okay.

@toomuchlaundry I deliberately didn't mention the PS as I think I saw that the OP has said that she realises that was maybe a step too far. I agree, DS should write that himself. However the PS is only a very small part of the application anyway and some schools give so much guidance it's all a bit of a farce anyway.

I've seen posts suggesting very little support and input, which I think is wrong. I also don't think it's a bad thing for a parent to help with researching, but that's just my opinion. OP maybe did a bit too much of this and got carried away as they were enjoying it, but it's not a bad thing to have done, and to whittle it down to 10 from which DS will decide, based on his own research and open days, seems fair enough to me.

It's interesting the the OP hasn't acknowledged the comments from those of us that work in HE and/or are very experienced in supporting young people through the university application process.

For me, the biggest issue isn't that she write his PS. Obviously, it's not ideal but it's acknowledged across the sector that some people get significant help. Experienced admissions tutors can often spot those that aren't written by young people and a number of universities don't use them in their initial decision making.

The issue is the fact she did the research and presented her son with HER top ten. This has removed a very valuable learning experience from her son and has narrowed his decision space. Who knows, he could have discovered a course he'd never heard of and may have created an entirely different list of preferred institutions. This part of the process is really important and while most young people will need some support it should be student led not parent or teacher led.

I had no help, no clue what I was doing, and chose firstly the wrong degree and then the wrong university to study it at. It's so important to make sure DC have lots of information and consider the important questions before making their decisions - even more important these days with £££ at stake.

(I agree though that parents shouldn't be writing first drafts of the PS and shouldn't exclude any options when researching stuff.)

It's interesting the the OP hasn't acknowledged the comments from those of us that work in HE and/or are very experienced in supporting young people through the university application process.

That is absolutely typical of this section of MN @VioletaDelValle My 30 years of teaching in three different national systems and all sorts of knowledge and experience is as nothing in the face of a mother speaking ....

DH has been on a few open/offer days with DS. Each time he has come home wishing he was a student again. If he had been solely researching the universities instead of DS I’m sure his choice would have been influenced what he would like not necessarily what would suit DS

But once again, nobody is saying that kids should get no guidance at all. What we're saying is that there is absolutely a place for support and guidance, but the process should be led by young people themselves, and they should do the work. Talking about options and factors that they might want to consider is helpful. Presenting them with a fully researched shortlist is taking responsibility away from them that they should be learning to handle. Helping them brainstorm ideas about what they might want to include in their personal statement is supportive. Drafting it for them is deeply disempowering.

There is a clear middle way between doing nothing to support your child and taking over completely. Most parents manage to get this balance right. Some, like your parents, fail to provide enough guidance and their kids are left to manage by themselves,, with varying results. Others, like the OP, massively overstep and end up disempowering their children and denying them valuable opportunities to learn and develop their sense of self efficacy.

Absolutely! The universities that I would have chosen for dd are not the same as the ones that she chose for herself, but I absolutely don't think that she has made the wrong choices. Quite the contrary, actually - I think she has prioritised the things that matter to her and that her choices are actually a much better fit that the ones that I would have selected for her.

True!!

DS sat us down, in the summer holidays after Y11, and told us what he wanted to do. He told us which institutions offered the course, what order he would rank them in, and what he had to do (as well as his A levels) to meet the course requirements.

After he had done that, we were fully involved - open days, discussions of order, facilitating extra opportunities. Checked PS in terms of spelling / grammar / sense; chased school for references when they had slightly misunderstood the deadlines (very early closure date). School (state comp) and extracurricular staff provided general and expert support.

But crucially, he drove it, and while his PS is one of the most unusual ones his school had ever encountered, they left it as it so clearly articulated his personal passion in a way no scripted or supported one could.

Prompt and support decision making process - absolutely. Get behind their personal choices and discuss pros and cons - of course. Facilitate with transport and be a sounding board - yes. Do it fir them? No.

@cantkeepawayforever
Thats completely different to us then. Unfortunately lots of Dc really don’t know what they want in y11. Many parents are chasing Dc to think about it. You are completely the opposite end of the spectrum when comparing interest and pursuit of a course from many Dc. Including mine. I’ve rarely heard of Dc being so sure of themselves except on MN and vets/doctors. Mine didn’t research the detail of courses at all. One did not do it at all. Just applied to the best she could. Private school didn’t help that much but some teachers did. I never read her PS. I believe she can write English. In fact school told DD not to bother with one application which undermined her confidence. Of course parents do step in but in our case just ferrying to open days.

On mn people go into ludicrous detail. It’s ott. Getting 5/6 on the shortlist is good enough. Who’s going to visit 10?

The only intervention that should be made is when dc undersell themselves and don’t sm high enough. As can be seen on MN threads, some teachers often don’t advise well. All universities are not equal.

Mine didn’t research the detail of courses at all. One did not do it at all. Just applied to the best she could.

They picked a degree course without even looking at its content? How did they know which was best?

My son researched the courses himself.

He applied for 2 General engineering, 3 aero. It came as a surprise to him when he went to the offer holder's day that one of the general engineering courses he applied for had no aero at all. (He'd missed the open day due to Covid).

In the end, that was the one he went to. He is enjoying it all immensely and is doing really well.

Proof that it can all work out OK for both student and university by a process of happenstance and travelling in the vaguely the right direction, rather than forensic examination of the facts.

I should probably clarify that DS expected us not to ‘approve’ of his course choice (niche; creative; known for leading into a very insecure and generally low-paid career), and thus marshalled all his arguments and facts in advance. He was genuinely surprised that we didn’t try to dissuade him - but faced with the evidence of a normally lackadaisical boy researching in such detail, how would we not be supportive?

In general, DS’s friends knew at the point of A level selection pretty much which direction they were planning to head in. DD knew subject, but not place for the course, at the same stage and equally selected A levels accordingly. I don’t think that is particularly unusual. DS’s over and above work on exactly which institutions was less usual, but again his friends would have been able to state their ‘dream institutions’ at the same stage at state comp.

Their school did gave a push on getting students to consider elite institutions from quite young, though (they had excellent results, and high Russell Group access, but surprisingly low Oxbridge / Imperial etc given the number of pupils with the necessary grades, simply because relatively few applied). That might have made eg Year 11s much more aware of ‘next steps’ than the norm.

@SoTedious Oxford,Durham, Bristol snd a couple of others she would consider ok for insurance. Actuality Bristol was the insurance. So “best” was a pretty obvious trio.

@TizerorFizz
I don't know the subject, maybe it matters less for some than others, but I still don't understand how someone would know those universities were best for them without knowing anything about the course or the people teaching it. Did they feel that the name of the university was more important than finding a course that they would find interesting / inspiring and that would suit their interests?

I am very curious - I have never heard of anyone just picking without looking at the course content before! I sort of understand that with Oxford because I think the name does still have cachet (although that's not to say their courses are all necessarily the best for everyone). But why are Durham and Bristol obvious?

@SoTedious Yes. University was important. DD wanted to be a barrister but study MFL first. So a solid university with grads who went into law was most important. Those three are on the top 5 for recruitment at the Bar.

MFL study would be seen as academic and good prep for law at these universities.

Also DD had no doubt all three would be great courses. Why waste time inspecting every minute detail when you just know what’s best for you and your aims? No spreadsheets in our house.

Course content varies quite a lot though and everyone has different preferences. I think I would advise a DC to check that the Bristol course looked like it was a good fit before going for that over say Warwick or UCL. But horses for courses.

(It's no wonder you don't agree with parents researching universities if you don't think the student needs to bother!)

“he could have discovered a course he'd never heard of” says @VioletaDelValle

Well considering my DS takes French, German and Latin at A-level and has long been wedded to studying languages at uni, I think not. I have researched all the language courses and options at his request.

Gently requesting that you see my ORIGINAL post - where I clearly said my DS “knows what he wants to study”. I have not closed off any degree options for him. He knows what he wants. So-called careers advisors on here are jumping to conclusions about me and disregarding the fact that my DS knows precisely what he wants to do! Great advice not