Oxbridge tutors???..

[WakingFromTheDream]

Just wondering do you recommend using a tutor to assist with personal statement// interview technique etc??

Many thanks

Do they not get support with their personal statement from school?

Don't waste your money.

Is the student getting any help re personal statement from school, eg an example of a personal statement submitted for the same or a related subject?

Feels like a slightly strange time of year to be thinking about personal statements. Are you just thinking ahead, OP?

A student who is capable of an oxbridge degree and worthy of a place shouldn't need a tutor to help them write their PS ffs. It's a personal statement.

Personal statement: This should be written by the applicant. It will be replaced by a different format soon anyway.

Interview technique: They are not looking for a polished 'performance' and can spot an applicant who has been coached. DS's interviews consisted of solving increasingly difficult maths and physics problems, with scaffolding provided by the interviewers. It wasn't the sort of thing you could coach for, but practice on Isaac Physics (which is free and accessible to anyone) was good preparation.

I have to agree with this.
The work load at Oxford is very high and requires the student to be able to work independently from day 1. If a child can't investigate the internet for tips about what to put in and then prepare their own PS then they really don't deserve a place.

Don’t waste your money. We only use the PS for ideas to ask candidates about their interests at interview - it isn’t in any way part of the assessment process.

Do you work in admissions for Oxford/Cambridge @tortoiseshellpeppershoes ? The perceived wisdom on Mumsnet is that the personal statement plays a crucial role in deciding who gets an interview at Oxbridge. Is that not the case?

For interview technique - definitely. I have a few friends who've got kids currently at Oxbridge and were extremely grateful that they prepped fully for the interview. It was very intense and a lot tougher than the school told them it would be and "prepared" them for. The parents paid a private company to do mock interviews with them (they're a v well known tutoring business) and the prep they got was a lot better than what they got from their (independent "top 10 in the country") school.
It depends how important it is for your child to get into oxbridge. If it's something they really want, I would definitely invest in some support and help outside of just school/family, but that's just me 🤷‍♀️

Not sure all the oxbridge interviewers even do that ... I seem to remember dd mentioning that her first interviewer glanced at it, noted that she was particularly interested in electronics, and proceeded to ask her about something utterly different.

Not sure where that info has come from - we don’t use the PS as a selector for interview. What determines being asked to interview are the exam and predicted grades and any results on pre-assessment tests. The PS is never a factor and we don’t assess it at any point in the process. We use it to ask candidate about at interview, but it’s not marked or assessed. However other universities do look at it as part of their assessment, so we normally say, write the PS to appeal to them, not to us!

We can honestly tell “coached” interviewees a mile off and in fact being overly “prepared” or coached can count against an applicant. Don’t waste your money on any company that claims that they can give candidates an advantage at interview. That kind of thing is obvious and we don’t ask the kind of questions that can be prepared for, anyway. Some kinds of coaching “advice” can be actively counterproductive, and some independent school candidates end up talking themselves out of a place through being too obviously reliant on glib interview “strategies”. Don’t even bother!

Well, all I’ll say is I didn’t get my DD any extra help for Oxford entrance and she didn’t get in. One of her friends’ parents invested a fortune for practice interviews, also didn’t get in. However, a friend who had her dc extensively prepped saw him be the only successful applicant from the school in that subject. But maybe he would’ve got in anyway, who knows? She thinks it made a difference and made me worried l’d let dd down (though she would have rejected any attempt at that, always saying she wanted no help). @tortoiseshellpeppershoes if you don’t score the personal statement, how come DD’s feedback from the college was that her UCAS form has scored higher than average? On what other parameters would the UCAS form be based? I’m not saying you’re wrong, because I’m sure you’re not, just wondering as i had assumed it was about the personal statement.

@tortoiseshellpeppershoes

"Don’t waste your money. We only use the PS for ideas to ask candidates about their interests at interview - it isn’t in any way part of the assessment process."

From what DS said of his experience this seems spot on. DS said 3 of 4 questions asked were relevant to subjects he was studying and 1 question was on his personal statement (where he had noted clubs and interests he enjoyed and courses he had attended and liked and were relevant to the course). School ran a practice interview for all pupils that wanted one (wherever they wanted to attend). We paid for no coaching etc .

Surely UCAS form could be assessed on grades (eg GCSES) already gained. DS has far from straight 9s seemed essential on mumsnet.

Could be!

DS attended a couple of the Oxbridge Formula (free) webinars which helped a little bit with how to structure a PS for Oxbridge, but TBH it wasn't anything school hadn't said. They wanted thousands to 'coach and prepare for success' but DS said if he needed them, he didn't deserve to get a place...!

He did a couple of practice interviews with his physics teacher, but apart from that, it was all him - doing loads of practice papers and maths/physics questions in the run up. His interviewers didn't ask a single question about his PS at interview - his A level predictions and ENGAA scores were more important..and of course achieving the A level grades.

DD applied as a bit of a punt, primarily because her friends at school were applying and she got swept up in all the buzz. All the friends had been attending the extensive coaching and preparation sessions the school arranged which DD didn't attend. One girl even told DD that she was wasting a valuable choice on her UCAS form as she didn't stand a chance without the preparation.

DD was the only one of her friendship group to get an interview, receive an offer and accept her place. I think what mattered was her passion, she had won a prestigious national competition for the subject and had taken part in an impressive list of related activities over several years. She had read widely around the subject, hundreds of books. I suspect the offer was based on her obvious enthusiasm and enjoyment of her chosen subject and preparation from a tutor would not have added to that.

DS applied, and was successful, as an international student as we are currently living overseas so there was no option of tutoring or excessive prep by the school he attends as they have no experience of UK universities!
He did his personal statement entirely on his own and just did some practice past MAT tests.
He was excited for his interviews, knowing that they be discussing his subject rather then the 'tell me all about yourself' type questions.
I think his genuine passion for his subject must have come across in his interviews (and his PS if they read it) which, in my opinion, can't be coached into a prospective applicant.

There is lots of advice freely available on You Tube and via the Oxford University website. DS's personal statement was basically a narrative on which bits of his subject interested him, what he had done in the way of super curricular learning/activities and what books he had read.
As above, his interview was entirely problem solving -(STEM). Some of his teachers helped him practice talking about how he was solving a problem out loud.
I believe admissions tests are changing but DS just practiced the last 10 years of tests until he was confident with the style.

I do think that interview 'practice' in a loose sense can help a student who is unused to talking about their subject to that degree. At my (state comp) we have a very good record of students getting to interview stage but struggling with the interview so have tried to give more prep on that.

Certainly Cambridge and Imperial seemed happier to test potential students on their thought processes, and leave less up to personal statement, maybe even (dare I say it) care less about him not having straight 9s 😱 . They both had entrance exams (he knows the result of his Cambridge ENGAA 😉 ) both had interviews during which most was problem solving (though DS felt Imperial was probably may be 50% problem solving 50% having a lovely chat about his current interests 😁). He is yet to hear from Imperial . My over riding impression as a parent was both universities managed to get my quiet child to open up and talk about Engineering and solve problems whilst communicating clearly with his interviewers his thoughts, a large part of which must be due to the interviewers themselves and their line of questioning (which may be difficult to coach for) . His biggest investments were a pack of A level maths revision cards and an"ekectronic drawing pad" he could plug into his laptop for interviews so he could show his working out.

We spent £6k getting our DS help with PS and loads of mock interview practice. He didn't get in and the feedback was that, while his was a very strong application, they felt he had been coached (or 'extensively prepared' as they put it!). He applied again (to a different college) the following year, with grades in hand, and did no prep or practice whatsoever - and he got in! So, from our experience, do NOT get DC's coaching!

Blimey.