Oxbridge tutors???..

[WakingFromTheDream]

Just wondering do you recommend using a tutor to assist with personal statement// interview technique etc??

Many thanks

Presumably that's for me @ErrolTheDragon ?! Yes, it was a costly and bloody stupid mistake all right. We didn't get to go on holiday that year as all spare cash went on unnecessary coaching - so served us right. In our defence, DS's terrible state school didn't have a clue about Oxbridge applications so we thought we had better get him extensive help. Not done the same with DS2 this year - just left him to it!

But at the same time to get into oxbridge can be quite important on the personal statement

Or the training he got helped when he did it on his own

But at the same time to get into oxbridge can be quite important on the personal statement

Have you read the thread? Not so important as some suppose, and worse than useless if it's not genuine.

Glad it worked out ok for your DS in the end, @Greekislandhopper !

I've not read this thread, but I watched YouTube videos by the guy that's a tutor from Christ college I think it is at Oxford and he was explaining the importance and tips to put into a personal statement

There isn't a Christ's College at Oxford, and the personal statement as has been explained previously in the thread does not form part of Oxford or Cambridge's offer making decisions.

DS2 had neither help from his (state) school nor any tutoring for either his PS or his interview. His interview at Oxford (for 2022 entry) focused heavily on the contents of his PS and also on his EPQ (which curiously was completely unrelated to his course).

Clearly, based on comments above, there is a wide degree of variation in how Oxbridge interviews are conducted depending on subject (and possibly college too?), which underlines even more how pointless paying vast amounts for preparation really is.
And to confirm DS2 was offered a place and started there last September.

Unless things have changed beyond recognition in the last few years (DDad was an Oxbridge don) then the process will be completely different college to college. My old college gave a ‘personal’ interview (as well as a subject one) to everyone except the maths applicants for example…other places would have been horrified by that.

There's nothing illegitimate about wanting tips on how to make the best possible application and doing the best possible interview if it comes to it. Schools with a track record of success at Oxbridge often provide this sort of guidance as standard and while it can go wrong sometimes, it's often really helpful. If your school doesn't have the resources or the experience to help you then I personally don't blame anyone for looking for an external company to help. (Getting a good one so that you don't waste your money is probably tricky though.)

Nobody needs an external company to write a PS but yes it's worth looking around for tips on what to include (extra-curricular stuff, something sincere about what you enjoy about the subject) and making sure your spelling and grammar are ok. Not least because other unis, who do place some weight on the PS sometimes, will read it too.

Nobody can give you detailed information about the interviews - there are strict rules about not divulging specific questions and most interviewees take that quite seriously, as they should - but some practice, as pp said, in how the process works - eg for maths and engineering, how to talk through your problem-solving processes while addressing a problem - may well be helpful and again an entirely legitimate thing to do. Again, at lots of schools this will be happening as standard - it does at my sons' school. It's one of those hidden bits of the process that benefits kids at selective/good schools. Nothing shameful about trying to get a similar bit of prep by paying for it - if only because it will make the actual interview feel a bit less scary and weird.

All that said, and specific interview practice with someone good aside, most of the information that can help you is out there on the web and freely available. My heart goes out to the family who spent £6k - there are some real grifters out there exploiting applicants and their families.

The guy who makes lots of good videos about applications is at Jesus in Oxford I think. There is definitely a guy at Jesus who has good and useful videos up anyway. Plus have a search for your subject + interview tips on google and YouTube - DS2 found a video of some students in his subject talking (carefully) about what their interviews had been like and it was really reassuring and quite informative.

@WakingFromTheDream

m.youtube.com/watch?v=y3oOnjlCn9Y

That's the person I was thinking off, from Oxford Jesus college

I hold my hands up and apologise, I got my intelligence wires crossed so to speak

Although a slight correction to your intelligence

"Personal statement advice
From Oxford’s point of view, the purpose of the personal statement is to provide additional information in the applicant’s own words about why they have chosen the subject and why they think they are suitable for the course. Please direct your student(s) to our guidance on writing your personal statement.

Tutors understand that the UCAS personal statement is written for up to four other university choices and therefore it cannot be tailored specifically for Oxford, especially for those subjects, and combinations of subjects, that few other universities offer. Nevertheless, it is helpful if the student applies to courses that are similar in nature at their university choices, otherwise writing the personal statement becomes more challenging.

Unlike many other universities, Oxford does not use the personal statement alone to make offers, or reject applicants, as tutors have a huge range of more detailed information from the rest of the application beyond the UCAS application."

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/teachers/advice

DD's school recommended Oxbridge Launchpad which she found really helpful.

It is for state school pupils and pairs you with a mentor in the second year in your subject. DD's mentor reviewed her PS and also did a couple of practice interviews. All free of charge.

I don't think anyone can say definitively what helps and what doesn't because interviews vary massively, subject to subject, college to college.

For instance, at some Cambridge colleges they do what is called a 'general interview' alongside a 'subject interview.' The general interview may well be with an admissions tutor or someone who who does not teach the specific subject. DD had one of these and the whole thing was about the PS.

In general, any practice talking out loud about their subject will obviously help. Thinking out loud in a coherent, non-rambling style can be an acquired skill in itself.

There is a company that matches applicants with Oxford / Cambridge students who have just finished the exact course they are applying to. DD had about 5 hour-long chats with such a student. It wasn't about being 'prepped' with set answers. It was guided chat and it really helped a lot with focusing her mind and applying knowledge to unfamiliar material etc. But mainly, it just got her into the habit of thinking out loud and being more specific. She was successful and felt this really helped.

Thank you all so much for amazing thoughts and insights xxx

Yeah, I think what you are saying @whiteroseredrose @phishh is explaining what was making me a bit uncomfortable about some of the advice on this thread. There can be a bit of an imperious attitude that kids who are 'good enough' for Oxbridge should never need any prep or rehearsal at all. I think that's unhelpful, and not always true by a long shot. Some kids will get in with genuinely zero prep, and good for them, but I suspect they're very much in the minority.

Of course being drilled and rehearsed to the point that you're not behaving authentically is going to be really unhelpful. It's totally normal to be really nervous in an interview, to the point of forgetting things you would normally have at your fingertips, and tutors will expect a bit of that. Similarly it's not a good idea to have a PS written in the style of a 40 year old professional tutor - it will just smell bad to the people reading it.

But it's equally unhelpful to go into the whole thing having not done any due diligence at all. There's a sensible middle course, which is having a look around online and taking commonly-occurring advice from trustworthy sources, and doing a bit of interview practice with someone with recent knowledge. I haven't heard of Launchpad but it sounds good. I know both of mine benefited from chatting to current students in their subjects, even if only because it was reassuring and made the whole thing seem concrete and achievable.

I hope I didn't sound imperious about DS's attitude about not wanting help otherwise he wasn't good enough - if I did, I apologise. I suppose what I was trying to say was that he drove the whole thing (I didn't even know he'd put Cambridge on his UCAS form until after he'd applied), and we were absolutely prepared to help support with paying for someone to provide interview guidance etc, but he said that he wanted to do it by himself. Although, as I said he did sign up to the Oxbridge Formula emails and found some of their advice helpful, but I think they were charging over £5k for pre interview and test coaching which we didn't feel was worth it. (However, I did sit through 2 hours of one of the Oxbridge Formula webinars taking notes for him (can't remember what he was doing instead!) because it was done by an engineering student so was pertinent to his application).

Anyway, whatever he did, it worked. I think it really depends on your college and your course - his group of 8 friends who all got in to Cambridge were all STEM subjects, all at different colleges - and none of them had any questions about their PS.

Good luck to @WakingFromTheDream 's DC, whichever route/help you decide to take!

DD's prep was through the Oxford UNIQ scheme which offers in person or online subject specific courses for state school applicants. Only one or two of those from her summer school actually ended up with a place for that subject, but they also went onto Cambridge, UCL, LSE etc.

Hopefully this will put people's minds at rest that you don't have to be wealthy and have money to spend on tutors etc to get a place at Oxbridge. UNIQ applications have probably just closed, but the Cambridge HE+ website has great advice on how to develop supra curricular interests, interviews and writing a PS. Many state schools have links to Oxbridge colleges as well eg. Jesus Oxford has links to schools in Wales, Teddy Hall to schools in Hampshire.

£5k? That's an obscene amount of money. Thank goodness Oxbridge have stepped up their efforts to level the playing field over the last few years.

It may even have been more than that @HewasH2O - I remember thinking it was an awful lot of money and with no guarantee of success (other than for the company!). They did make you do a pre-test before they would take you on as a candidate (I guess to ensure that you were up to the required standard), and then they advertise as over 90% success rate - but I wonder if they will be able to maintain that as Oxbridge try to level the playing field at the same time as the competition becomes ever more fierce for places.

(I'm so thankful my second and third children aren't wanting to do Oxbridge entrance - number 4 is only 12 so we'll see!).

He sounds fab @Panicmode1 - congrats to him (and you!) - if he’s doing engineering at O this coming October he will (results permitting) be course-mates with DS2.

I was reacting (possibly overreacting) more to a general implication I detect sometimes on MN that Oxbridge entrance (and I do think it’s specifically Oxbridge in this instance) only ever comes down to being a Total Genius, or having a sort of freewheeling intellectual élan untouched by the hand of ‘pushy’ teachers or parents. And I think the latter is closely related to an older class-inflected gatekeeping instinct that sees striving/prep as somehow declassé (this whole thing seems to lend itself to French for some reason…) and it’s misleading for applicants from WP backgrounds who don’t know about the whole ecosystem of support that sustains applicants from good schools/in-the-know families.

Most of the kids I know who got in are good at their subjects, capable of sustained focus, got help with PS and interviews from their schools and/or parents, did a lot of past-paper practice and had a bit of luck. Obviously this is only my anecdotal experience, but these are kids (my sons’ friends and peers) from a super-selective state sixth form, so are likely to be representative of a substantial successful Oxbridge applicant cohort.

I just wanted to push back a bit against the implication that if candidates ‘deserve’ to get in they will have minimal help and preparation. I think that’s not true, and it’s unfair to parents and applicants who aren’t familiar with the system. But as I said (and as your experience shows) this is a different thing from shelling out serious cash for dodgy advice.

@PacificState He's already at Cambridge (first year engineering) and was also at a super selective state grammar school - his cohort sounds very similar to your DS's. And I agree with everything you have written - there's such a lot of 'code'/snobbery around the whole process! Rather like the 11+ where I live actually, so I guess I should have been prepared.

Good luck to your DS - it felt like a lifetime waiting for results day last year, but I'm sure it wasn't really!

Thanks @Panicmode1, it's definitely going to be a long six months...

Spoke to DS he did some free webinvars (had people from States university admissions and oxbridge university admissions with the idea being to compare the 2). This helped with PS.

Past papers are available free online by physics and maths tutor (eg for engineering/maths/computer science oxbridge entrance exams). Really recommend going through these and feeling happy with the knowledge and speed required to get the best scores . As said before he did buy revision aids (revision cards) for maths A level. I would also say get them talking to anyone who has worked in the area your dc wants to go into (may be practise answering questions) and get them confident talking online as practice.

DD's school's offer of interview prep came in the form of a practice interview with someone who had studied politics at Brookes. Nothing wrong with that, except DD already knew from the info provided by Oxford that their interviews would not focus on her PS and would definitely not be asking her about her sporting achievements etc.

Fortunately you don't need perfect academics unless you come from a minority of schools. They simply want to find out about your potential, not what a profit making company has coached you to say. Oxford is very aware what a normal 18 year old says and does in an interview situation.