Oxbridge Rejects 2023 - Come this way and commiserate

[Rejects]

As mentioned on the other thread a safe space for those who'd like a bit of support while not dampening others' moods Sorry that I have gone on a lot about this rejection already on here - it's helped me keep outwardly calm and cheerful when my ds has been very upset.

I am acutely aware in the scheme of things a university rejection is not a huge deal and that amazing lives and outcomes no doubt await all our dc wherever they go, it's just getting through the time between now and A levels and/or offers from other unis arriving, keeping dcs' morale up. Good luck everyone

I’ve attached a photo I took at the Durham open day in September (yes it’s Sociology and a lot of MN don’t view it as a proper subject etc etc etc) but they stressed the importance of the PS.

So with Durham you effectively have x2 PS - the main one and the Durham specific one?

Assume they read both and give equal credit to each - so does this provide an opportunity to extend the PS over both?

Does anyone know what the character count is on each?

Sigh …. With the image this time!

Re Durham offers all of ds’s friends who applied were offered - they are at a grammar school and not contextual- it was a variety of subjects - history, English, MFL, psychology, Nat sci.

I think A&F and Economics are just madly over subscribed at the moment. Re PS they said they weren’t interested in whether you were head boy, had gold D of E, etc etc they were interested in things which were relevant- dd only wrote about relevant stuff - the character count is so low there’s no space to mention being a prefect / sport etc.

Dd wrote one ps statement for all 5 applications.

At the St Andrew's offer day the admissions department said that PS is vitally important for most subjects and that the PS' are read by on average two people, often more before they make a decision about whether to make an offer. This is because at St A's as well as your offered subject you take four other subjects in the first two years and in the third you can drop any combination. So a lot of St A's students come out with very different degrees than they applied for.

I do think that the accuracy of your school’s predictions must play a part. DD’s school sends a reasonable number of students to Durham each year and their predictions are generally very accurate.

With the PS, every single talk we had was emphasising so-called supra-curricular activities (essay competitions, lectures) relevant to the course not extra-curricular activities (prefect, sport...unless of course applying for sports science...etc).

Key extra-curricular activities and general school achievements were put in the reference by the school.

@Cloverly
I was talking about differentiating between highly qualified candidates. Bristol say this about the PS. It seems fairly standard procedure to say how they will differentiate if they need to. I am therefore correct.

The attached are Durham stats for home students for 2021 entry. I will try and find 2022! Some really large numbers of applications for very few places. No wonder great applicants are rejected!

Yes, I'd generally agree with this.

DS is at a NI Grammar School, where they do AS Levels in 4 subjects - most then drop one for final year.

The school base predicted grades off the A/S raw marks - very low numbers of A* - and showed us metrics from 2019 and 2022 that:

a. pupils generally get offers at the places they apply to - mostly RG (although that metric is somewhat skewed due to the high numbers who apply/go to QUB)

b. 80% achieved their exact predicted grades.

c. Less than 5% had to enter Clearing.

Lastly (sorry!) I think it is very poor advice to believe a sought after course/uni won’t read the PS. An open day, before applications arrive, is one thing but differentiating between dozens of first class applications is another. I would suggest everyone reads what the university actually says in these days of diminishing places for home students and inflated grades. Not that Durham says much at all!

Just accepting a blanket “we don’t read the PS” is clearly unlikely to be true in the very many tie breaker decisions now being made. Ditto they “don't care about GCSEs” which is often trotted out. Again it’s info that helps in a tie break or, as at Bristol, before that. Bristol say on many courses that the PS is a tie breaker. Not sure it’s department by department but it could be.

@Ooonafoo no, they only look at one PS. They give you a chance to substitute a Durham specific PS. You only really need to do this if applying for slightly different courses at different unis.

Well obviously we cannot all be the font of all unbiased, unoppionated and never in any tiniest way incorrect knowledge.
I can merely repeat that at a Psychology open day at Bristol this academic year the lecturer delighted in telling the audience that their PS would not be read. There was an audible intake of breath in the room. He said students would have been misled on this point by their school who had no doubt told them it was very important and that all universities read them. He wished this practice would stop, and that the students had not had to waste their time on it. He did acknowledge that other universities were probably different.

It seems how / whether PSs are used varies both between and within universities therefore difficult to give definitive advice. I've heard Bristol use algorithms for some subjects - if your GCSE / A Level predicted grades meet certain criteria then for some subjects - particularly the less competitive ones - you are offered a place without your PS being read.
I agree that on competitive courses PS more likely to be read and also if you miss your grades then your firm / insurance may review your PS whether to offer you a place anyway.
No harm spending some time writing a good PS - good practice for job applications etc Also practice can change over time so the past isn't necessarily a guide to the future and before long maybe ChatGPT will be reading them for admissions tutors?

@TizerorFizz actually last year there was a thread on the student room from someone who worked in admissions for another uni . They said that Durham had been trying to redress the balance between more privileged students and those with less privilege. So everyone gets assigned a POLAR category-of which I think there are 5 . It isn’t as blunt as the Oxbridge state v private but much more nuanced. So for example not just school type but also things like if your postcode typically sends kids to uni ; if your parents are graduates etc etc . So in our area many ( not just private or grammar ) will have found themselves in a very high, if not the highest, privilege group because we usually have one of the highest proportions of school leavers who go onto uni .

In past years ie pre 22/23 admission cycle the most privileged group outnumbered the least privileged by 10:1 . So in 22/23 they set a target of 5:1. However because they were struggling to get more from the least privileged group having maxed out outreach and summer school offers , the easiest way to reduce the ratio was to significantly reduce offers made to the most privileged group . This is pretty much the sum of the info I have but last year I know loads of Multi A * predicted applicants who did not get offers .

And just to add - they may not have pursued this in 2023/4 or the student room poster might have been wrong . So I have nothing else to back that up other than to say in our area we had a lot fewer Durham offers .

Back in my day (80s) it was not uncommon for Oxbridge applicants to be rejected by all their other choices, as the universities could see where they were placed in your list. Obviously a fair few people were left high and dry which was preposterous.

Now some places - I suspect Durham - guess who is an Oxbridge applicant. No. 1 clue is an early application. Luckily I had been tipped the wink on the student room and told dd to drip feed her application choices. The school didn’t understand and kept saying she couldn’t do that. They were hopeless! (Her tutor also called her a snob because she hadn’t chosen the local ex-poly - )

Ah OK - thanks for the clarification

And also to add my son did get an offer - and is at Durham now - but did not submit a separate PS. His PS pretty much was about the subject . Literally two lines on other stuff. He did do a DofE residential on ecology and conservation and so he mentioned that but only because it was relevant to his course so I guess showed a genuine interest and got some useful skills.

My DS (comp sci Cambridge reject) has just firmed Edinburgh Uni for its integrated masters. It's an unconditional offer so there is no insurance.

He seems pleased so I'm pleased for him.

Hope all the DCs of us 'rejects' are moving forward with exciting and positive new chapters.

@Cloverly
Well most applicants do read how a university selects for the course they want. It’s hardly the tiniest piece of info. It might be critical! Bristol clearly say what I posted. It’s a tie breaker. That’s because they get a lot of equally qualified applicants so the decisions are not just on A levels and GCSEs. I think the gasp was because the speaker at Bristol was only partially correct. No need for some to be read but other parents would know they read it when necessary. Anyone can look up details like this.

However Durham don’t explain tie breaker decisions. At least Bristol do!

Fantastic Aurea, how great to know where he’s going. Dd may well see him there in September although things are still up in the air, she’s now leaning more to reapplying to O, as we’ve had some information to push her in that direction. Whatever outcome she pursues will work out, she loved Edinburgh ( as do I) and is excited about life there. Good luck everyone these next few weeks

Btw a LOT of Durham rejects at dd’s school. Whatever the criteria is for choice, they need to be a lot clearer about it at the outset. My friend thinks they just pull it out of a hat.

Thanks Lanadelslay 😊. For which subject has your DC applied?

My DS just rejected his Durham offer in favour of Edinburgh so that might open up another comp sci place for someone.

I fully understand that people who have rejections from Durham are sad / frustrated/ angry even but saying those who have received offers were just pulled out of a hat is really disingenuous and has implies they didn’t get their offers on merits which is of course not true.