Oxbridge Rejects 2023 - Come this way and commiserate

[Rejects]

As mentioned on the other thread a safe space for those who'd like a bit of support while not dampening others' moods Sorry that I have gone on a lot about this rejection already on here - it's helped me keep outwardly calm and cheerful when my ds has been very upset.

I am acutely aware in the scheme of things a university rejection is not a huge deal and that amazing lives and outcomes no doubt await all our dc wherever they go, it's just getting through the time between now and A levels and/or offers from other unis arriving, keeping dcs' morale up. Good luck everyone

As mum of DD who got pooled by C but not fished, I have been lurking. Thank you for this thread OP - so helpful. DD was so very upset at first but she’d always known Oxbridge a gamble - the standard “you were pooled not fished so perhaps reapply” email did not help. DD not resilient enough to withstand potential double rejection so won’t be reapplying

She just got Durham offer and v excited.

Sad that @LittleBurger4 DC is so floored by O rejection that she does not want to go anywhere else. That’s odd - there are 5 choices on UCAS and I know NO ONE who is resting their hopes on Oxbridge alone

. Sorry but @LittleBurger4 needs to come to terms with reality, drop the Oxbridge fantasy and encourage her DC to look forward.

Hope everyone is doing well, ds is back for his final school term tomorrow and seems in a good place - has had a great mix of socialising and revising over Easter and is loved up with new gf. Still not made his final uni choice as he’s waiting for Edinburgh to clarify something but they’ve said they’ll let him know by May 31. Some of his friends predicted 3 A stars have had some rejections from places like St Andrews and Durham so he’s realised how lucky he is, feel for those kids though, who are really smart. It’s tough out there :(

FINALLY heard from Durham for non-Oxbridge DT (Econ) - and it's a no, alas. But secretly I'm quite pleased, as that leaves him with Nottingham, which is a fab option and much closer 🙂. Loughborough as insurance I think. Cambridge pooled-but-passed-over DT (compsci) has Manchester, with Warwick insurance - again, very pleased for him. Now they both 'just' need to get those grades.........

@multivac Good luck to them both! Great options there.

That's fantastic @multivac, great to know where they stand at this stage

Really sad for quite a few predicted all A* pupils at ds's school who've been passed over by Durham, there was something in the paper yesterday from the head of UCAS about how difficult it was to get a place in the so-called "top" unis this year and how people needed a realistic spread of choices on their form. I encouraged ds to do this and am very glad it paid off. Still, it's extremely hard to process when you're a top student that even though you've done everything required there's still no room for you at a "top" uni

@Rejects, yes it's so tough all round this year. I've heard of rejections from Durham, St Andrew's and Edinburgh for 3 A* predicted students. In my sons school they have only received 2 offers from St A's when normally they get 6/7. Lots of sad year 13's wondering what more they could do?

@Rejects can you remember which paper it was?

@Rejects would love to know too and whether any reason was given. Brutal rejections at our school too from Durham and the like for 3 and 4 A star students. On TSR UCL has rejected a 5 A star student for economics as well as many 4 A star plus EPQs for not being competitive enough….and I am sure they all had the usual easy comps etc. @Karmacat i think you are right - what more can they do. Not a lot….but maybe the unis need to be shortlisting and interviewing or using admissions tests too - at least with Oxbridge you feel they are basing the decisions on a bit more info (although I know they are also flaws and decisions that don’t make sense).

@Karmacat The article was in The Times, I can't post because it's behind a paywall but I read it on the app last night so it would be either in y'day's or today's paper

@lovefizzycolabottles I don't know if reasons were given for the rejections because obviously I'm not probing parents I know at this stage just being sympathetic - maybe I'll hear in the course of time. My friends are managing their dcs' disappointment but very sad for them. Seriously, if the toppest of the top grades don't cut it then what does? Especially if they say most of these unis don't read the ps. I really, really feel for them - I know these kids, they're fantastic and receiving this kind of kick in the teeth just before A levels is really horrible.

@rejects poor kids - I meant a reason by the head of UCAS for such high numbers being rejected this year. The only reason the student seem to get is that their application wasn’t as strong as others which is just generic isn’t it….

The article was in yesterday's Times - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/back-up-choice-a-must-for-university-applicants-says-admissions-chief-qfwsgwncn

It was from the Chief of Cambridge Admissions. I didn't find it particularly enlightening - his key recommendation was:

Applicants should have one or two aspirational choices that stretch them, a couple within their predicted grade range and also a back-up option in case everything goes badly.

which is what most people do anyway.

Let me know if you can't view the link (The Times usually allows so many free articles to non-subscribers) and I'll post the body

Oh sorry, yes it was a quote in an article written for UCAS by the head of Cambridge admissions

He said: "Students will need to research expectations and requirements if they are to secure an offer and how to use all available choices of universities. Those who opt to cluster all their options around a narrow range of highly competitive and selective courses and universities are unlikely to receive many offers.

The tone was more - too many kids are making unrealistic choices.
It doesn't really explain why so many students with top grades are being rejected but I'd imagine it's a combination of there still being a Covid backlog, grade inflation (especially during Covid) and widening access.

I don't know if most people do do the if-all-else-fails option, I see a lot of all A-star kids putting down eg Oxford, Durham, St Andrews, UCL, Bristol and being rejected by all five - that's why I encouraged ds to have two less aspirational on his list. DH was dead against it as he argued if ds was on course for top grades why not target the top? Luckily ds agreed with me. They're basically going to have to tighten grade boundaries to get round this but people don't like that!

He was also saying why is everyone applying to the same degrees. So widening the degree choices and not all going for maths - Cs- business - econ - psychology would be sensible

@Rejects
I think it’s subject choice too. I bet if everyone wanted a MFL with their chosen subject, the outcome might be different. When very bright DC choose A levels, make the third a MFL! Yes, it will be a challenge but some Dc could do this and keep more options alive.

Just to add: it does not seem good enough in this day and age for a university not to give info on how they select students. Looking at some stats from Durham, there are huge numbers of rejections for some courses. No detail as to why. Was it less competitive grades or combination of subjects, PS, school attended, GCSEs or what? If lots have the same grades, or similar predictions, how, exactly, do they decide? Some courses are only offering to a minority of applicants. Are they prioritising some backgrounds over others or local students?

I know Bristol uses the PS to decide. They do say that. Plus GCSEs might be looked at and weighted. It’s poor advice to say the ps isn’t read. Frequently said on mn. With no info about how decisions are made, the only info the universities have is ps and exam results achieved. If anyone can find details on how decisions are made at Durham, please say! Looks like a closely guarded secret! It’s not transparent or fair. The stats tell you the courses that are hugely oversubscribed but don’t tell you how successful candidates get the place.

Bristol stated on the Psychology open day this academic year that they categorically do not read the PS.

Do you think that this is might be a departmental decision?

Are the 2024 starters (2023 application) also now not having school reference?

Possibly departmental yes. But it is not correct to make a statement that they definitely do read it.

At the Durham Open Day, last June, within the Business School:

1. The Accounting & Finance lecturer spent 5 minutes of her talk promoting the importance of the personal statement.

1. The Economics lecturer said they don't read them and would make offers for all who had required achieved/predicted grades. He justified this on the fact that applicants would also typically be applying to LSE, Warwick, Cambridge etc. etc. so not all going to accept Durham.

However, based on the number of Economics rejections on the TSR, with 3/4 A*, that definitely seems not to be the case this year.

And yes, Durham do need to provide better reasons for rejections. My son's was the banal:

"We receive a high number of applications for this course. Because of the high level of competition for places it has not been possible to make you an offer on this occasion"

which, for me, equates to "Your lottery numbers weren't selected this week"

@TizerorFizz judging by comments on this year's TSR Durham thread, people who have been rejected have typically been told that either their grade profile or their PS is not as strong as other candidates. So while the uni may not be being explicit about their criteria, they do seem to look at A Level/IB predictions, and I would guess achieved GCSE grades (to help distinguish the many students with top predictions), and the personal statement. Durham even allow students to write a Durham specific PS - probably because they know they get a lot of Oxbridge applicants and some of the PS's designed for Oxbridge/other uni courses may not always be a good match to the subjects applied for at Durham. Anecdotally they are also slightly more interested than Oxbridge in any co-curricular interests. [My DD is a current Y1 in Durham, who did a Durham specific PS for her application last year - she didn't apply to Oxbridge]

@TizerorFizz I agree. The Durham offers have seemed fairly random but there seem to be a few themes emerging from my kids’ 3 schools & friends’ schools: International students got offers. Contextual applicants got offers. RUK solid performers (3 A Levels - not all predicted Astar) fared ok (outside of Economics). The category with almost wholesale rejections were the RUK early applicants (Oxbridge) with predicted grades of 4+ AStar (& strong extra curriculars).
Seems bizarre as you think Durham as a top academic uni would want students with the highest academic profile but perhaps it’s better for them administratively to give offers to those strong performers they think will firm Durham as first choice rather than those who would put them as insurance to Oxbridge?
A headmaster also told a friend whose son (Oxbridge applicant) was rejected for Economics from Durham despite 4Astar predictions, fluent in 3 languages, Head Boy, Chess and Basketball champion etc… that certain unis (including Durham) are increasing their international intake on the argument that they lost out financially due to Covid and need to balance books. Anecdotal of course but interesting nevertheless.

@Waythroughwoods Durham has made no secret of its plan to increase the proportion of international students dramatically: to 39% of the intake by 2026:

https://www.palatinate.org.uk/durhams-international-intake-to-reach-39-by-2026/

....that certain unis (including Durham) are increasing their international intake on the argument that they lost out financially due to Covid and need to balance books. Anecdotal of course but interesting nevertheless.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Durham's reason for rejecting my son was High Competition, with their explanation on their website for this being:

When we can’t offer a place based on competition, a lot of time will have been spent comparing applications to find why one application is just a little bit stronger than another. We know that many of you who are unsuccessful because of competition are ideal Durham candidates - it says much more about the volume of high-quality applications we receive than it will ever say about your individual suitability for Durham.

If that truly was the reason, then how do they justify the fact they're still advertising the course he applied for (and many combinations of it) on UCAS Extra, but only for International applicants.

For the Durham PS - does this need to be about the course as per Oxbridge and/or extracurriculars as per everywhere else?

Or is that likely to be course specific (DD thinking about History)?

@Ooonafoo my DD was told at a pre application open day - albeit not by anyone directly connected with admissions - that they are interested in a more rounded view of applications, so to include some extra-curricular (but not too much - it should still be primarily about academic suitability).