Applying for computer science at Cambridge and Imperial

[Amboseli]

DS is in Y12, we're researching unis for 2024 entry.

From what I've looked at so far, on the face of it Imperial seems harder to get into than Cambridge?

Imperial grade requirements are A star AAA whereas Cambridge don't appear to set any requirements for the 4th A level although they ask for 2 A stars and 1 A.

Imperial require STEP papers whereas Cambridge require TMUA which I've heard is "easier" than STEP (although that could mean the pass mark/boundaries are higher).

Imperial ask you to sit an online test before you are even considered for an interview.

Can anyone whose DC have applied to both shed any light?

It's so difficult to gauge. Do people apply for both or is that not a good idea?

And Manchester uni ask for 3 A stars (!) which is higher than both Imperial and Cambridge but no STEP/TMUA.

Others we're looking are Warwick and UCL, also very competitive and maybe Birmingham/Nottingham/Bristol as insurance (A star and 2 As).

No firm decisions made and we need to go and visit etc.

But I would be interested to hear from anyone who applied for CS at Cambridge and/or Imperial to try and gauge just how hard it is to get in.

DS is doing maths, further maths, physics and economics. Doesn't have any predicted grades yet but is achieving 3 A stars and As at the moment.

Thanks!

DS applying for engineering so not as difficult to get into as for CS . CS is the most competitive subject to get into for both at those unis by a long way (I'm sure you know that). It is fine to apply to both unis.
Not sure Cambridge offer for 4 a levels on things as standard (do all schools offer 4 a levels at the same time -is it a fairness thing ?). Entrance exams were standardised for DS so not sure if "difficulty" is most relevant 🤔 with the exams or.....how well you do within your cohort of applicants. Tests were standardised so average score was 4 with top 10% getting 7 or above. Some are taken pre interview in autumn term so maybe they take into account entire syllabus may not be covered. STEP taken in summer so all syllabus should be covered. Colleges offer at their discretion so may suddenly ask for STEP papers. Number wise I think there are more applicants per place at Imperial for lots of courses than Cambridge.

Good luck to your DS . I was so pleased my DS wasn't going for CS . Its so competitive 😫.

In terms of the competitiveness I just wanted to tell you what we were told at the Birmingham open day for Cs. You will get an offer and a place of you get the grades. I double checked and said so if you get 500 applicants with the grades, you'll take them all? And the answer was yes.

Are they not (legally) obliged to take anyone they have offered to that make the grades. In some cases some unis have offered cash incentives for students to delay entry a year if they do not have enough space and resources. I cannot think they would make 500 offers (unless they see themselves as people's 2nd choice, so hedging bets and making more offers).

For Cambridge, most colleges require two A , with one of the As being in Mathematics or Further Mathematics (if taken). 3rd A level to be an A.

Here is the specific list by college
www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/computer_science_subject_requirements.pdf

“For 2017, 2018 and 2019 entry, the majority of entrants from an A Level background achieved at least grades AAA* (81% of entrants). All took Mathematics, 96% took Further Mathematics, 85% took Physics and 59% took Computing.”
www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/computer-science

“Two A stars, with one of the A stars being Maths or further maths (if taken)”

It's not really about the grade demands so much as the popularity of the course that makes it so competitive. The overwhelming majority of UK candidates getting an offer from Cambridge will have it as their first choice, which means far fewer offers will be made than for somewhere like Birmingham.

@JuneOsborne I think they meant everyone who had received an offer and got the required grades would get their place.

But not everyone that applies will get an offer, even if in your application you have the requisite projected grades.

That's my understanding anyway.

It's ridiculous that students have to compete for so few places and that excellent students are turned down. The number of places needs to be increased. Surely that would be good for the UK in general if we want to be a prosperous country.

@DahliaMacNamara yes you're right. The grades are achievable by DS but it's the sheer number of applicants that are the problem!

If he applies to both Cambridge and Imperial both with a 90+% rejection rate he is effectively only applying to 3 universities and I'm wondering if that's a good idea. He also has to do the extra work for TMUA and STEP and it may still amount to no offer and no place.

Is it worth it? A 1st in CS from a good RG uni won't hold him back in life I'm sure but he might always wonder what would have happened if he had applied....🤔It's up to him but I want him to go in with his eyes open and not have his heart set on Cambridge or Imperial which to be fair it isn't.

Surely STEP work could be done only if he needs STEP papers (I.e. After hearing from unis).TMUA I believe is done autumn term so at least not the summer of A levels . Work for TMUA I would assume may help prepare for Alevels/STEP.

@yoyo1234 yes TMUA is done in the autumn term. STEP prep would have to be done alongside A levels probably from January to June as it's taken in the summer around the same time as A levels.

If he was offered a place at Imperial it could still be withdrawn if he doesn't get the required grade in STEP. It's a brutal process and I suppose only the most determined would put themselves through it.

I think an offer from various unis for a course as amazingly oversubscribed and popular as CS is great. The difficulty is getting an offer it; shouldn't matter so much where (the pressure is on getting somewhere). Can he apply to both Imperial and Cambridge and then choose a couple that are slightly less competitive (I know even those are competitive). He doesn't then have to worry too much about Imperial and Cambridge just focus on any offer.
Sounds like he'll get the grades (and do Imperial always ask for STEP? For what it is worth DS loved Imperial interview etc they seemed to get his interests .

Basically can you get him to think "yah, I got into to this incredibly competitive course" rather than "I did/didn't get into Imperial/oxbridge " . Then it's really only 1 or 2 places on a form regardless of how it goes (wish there was a shoulder shrug emoji!).

My son applied to Imperial and Cambridge for CS and got an offer from Imperial but although was pooled post interview a rejection from Cambridge.

It was only after going through this process with pre interview tests (Imperial) TMUA & CSAT for Cambridge that he actually looked at the course content (!!!). Cambridge is very theoretical. Imperial is much more practical with several group projects and six months in industry. I get the impression that some employers rate Imperial over Cambridge for this reason but that the student experience is better at Cambridge in that you mix with a lot of other students doing different subjects and that it has the college set up.

So it's horses for courses really. What I have learned is that when it comes to CS and employment it doesn't really matter what uni you go to. It's all about the work experience. In 5-10 years pretty much everything any of these universities is teaching will be obsolete.

Sorry missed last bit.

DS applied to three less competitive CS courses and has offers. I think this is reassuring for him because the demands of Cambridge and Imperial are very very high and there seems to be a big dollop of luck that comes into it all too.

@yoyo1234 that's the plan. Apply to unis with lower grade requirements although they'll be oversubscribed too by the sounds of it as it seems there are simply not enough places for comp sci.

Crazy as there's a shortage of people in the UK with these skills!

And yes very good way of thinking about it. Any offer is a win because it's so competitive all round. Although don't want him to feel stressed about not getting any offers at all which I have heard about due to the shortage of places. Plus he is working so hard this year and he's known he wants to work in tech/IT practically since he was born (!) it would be simply awful if he didn't get a place anywhere.

He's quite keen on a gap year so I think we need a gap year plan B in the no offer scenario with relevant work experience and hopefully some traveling and then reapply.

@NoCatsToday yes we're looking at less competitive places too. Do you mind sharing which ones your DS applied to?

I think a degree that includes a placement year will be our focus.

I thought Oxford was very theoretical and Cambridge less so. I agree Imperial is the best for being the most practical and industry orientated.

Well done to your DS for getting an offer! Does he have to do STEP? Has he got any tips for application success?!

Crazy as there's a shortage of people in the UK with these skills!

It's not really crazy - if his aim is just to go onto a computing field once he's graduated (ie where you've identified we have a skills gap) he could go to your local post 92 for a Computer Science degree that will get him a job and no stressing over STEP etc.

But he wants to go somewhere super competitive - so by definition it's super-competitive! If Cam, Imp etc had places for all that applied it wouldn't be competitive or retain its reputation.

Yes to STEP. He goes to a bog standard comp and they can't help with this so I guess we're going to have to look for a tutor something.

I know two of them were Bath and Lancaster. Bath's offer is AAAB so still high but a long way of the AstarAstarAA plus STEP of Imperial.

@titchy I completely disagree. The government isn't willing to fund more university places including for medicine which is crazy as we have a chronic shortage of doctors. Every year there are excellent candidates that aren't offered a place at med school. Not because they're not good enough but simply due to lack of places.

Same with comp sci. So many excellent students turned down simply due to lack of places, not because the students aren't good enough.

If the UK wants to improve it's dire economy the government needs to fund more uni places and invest in our young people instead of importing people with the skills we need because it's cheaper than investing in home students.

It's not that DS wants to go somewhere super competitive for the sake of it, he's in the top 5% of a super selective school and yet he could miss out on a place simply because there aren't enough. He certainly wouldn't lower the reputation of any university he attended.

@NoCatsToday thanks, I'll look them up. I have heard bath has a good reputation for comp sci.

For STEP Cambridge has lots of information and support on their website so that would be a good starting point.

STEP is awful because you can get the grades but still lose your place because you don't score highly enough in STEP.

Same with comp sci. So many excellent students turned down simply due to lack of places, not because the students aren't good enough.

Not true. If any uni wanted to double or treble or quadruple the number of computing places on offer they could if they chose - there is no control on student number in England or Wales, except for course requiring clinical placements - and there are other considerations with those.

That fact is your kid wants an elite degree. For the reason that it is elite. He could just as easily do Computing at London/Leeds/Cardiff/Man Met and get a job in that area. But (rightly) he's aiming for an elite competitive university.

And he won't miss out as long as he is sensible with his choices. Just putting COWI on his UCAS form with no Birmingham/Nottingham/Liverpool would be foolish. But you've said he won't do that, so he'll be fine.

I'm not being arsey btw - I do understand the anxiety in both parent and applicant, and I'm (one of!) MN's biggest proponents of uni. But for the likes of COWI to remain elite and competitive means they have to be very very selective. If they opened their doors to all who achieved say AAB, even though those applicants would in all likelihood do very well, their elite and competitive status would be lost. And their intake numbers would decline!

Well yes, of course. But it amazed me. A star, A, A is not a bad offering, plenty will get that. Interestingly the pwc apprenticeship at bham is still only AAA. And they take appx 30. I think it'll be a big course.

The draw for my Ds is the module on quantum computing.

@NoCatsToday

How does your DS know about his offer from Imperial so soon. DS was told March as UCAS not long closed and they have to set exams and interview everyone. He's nervously waiting.