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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

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Original poster

Applying for computer science at Cambridge and Imperial

97 replies

Amboseli · 03/02/2023 10:42

DS is in Y12, we're researching unis for 2024 entry.

From what I've looked at so far, on the face of it Imperial seems harder to get into than Cambridge?

Imperial grade requirements are A star AAA whereas Cambridge don't appear to set any requirements for the 4th A level although they ask for 2 A stars and 1 A.

Imperial require STEP papers whereas Cambridge require TMUA which I've heard is "easier" than STEP (although that could mean the pass mark/boundaries are higher).

Imperial ask you to sit an online test before you are even considered for an interview.

Can anyone whose DC have applied to both shed any light?

It's so difficult to gauge. Do people apply for both or is that not a good idea?

And Manchester uni ask for 3 A stars (!) which is higher than both Imperial and Cambridge but no STEP/TMUA.

Others we're looking are Warwick and UCL, also very competitive and maybe Birmingham/Nottingham/Bristol as insurance (A star and 2 As).

No firm decisions made and we need to go and visit etc.

But I would be interested to hear from anyone who applied for CS at Cambridge and/or Imperial to try and gauge just how hard it is to get in.

DS is doing maths, further maths, physics and economics. Doesn't have any predicted grades yet but is achieving 3 A stars and As at the moment.

Thanks!

OP posts:

Turmerictolly · 04/02/2023 23:31

Original poster

Amboseli · 04/02/2023 23:37

@ChewOnALeaf thanks for that, interesting.

I'm going to see if I can find stats for pre 2020 ie pre pandemic as that's going to be closer to DS's year than pandemic years with grade inflation. He got 10x9s and 1x8 in GCSE. (French.)

He's so excited to be applying for CS, especially when we're looking through the modules and he can see what he'll be studying. His school didn't offer GCSE or A level CS so this is his first opportunity to study formally. He's self taught a lot but it's not the same as a degree.

I think he's in with a good chance but of course no guarantees. He can but try and give it his best shot.

OP posts:

middleager · 05/02/2023 00:04

Thanks for starting this thread. I have two in Y12 both interested in CS but I have no idea where to start - you are so clued up and ahead of us. I'm feeling overwhelmed as we are so behind compared with you.
This thread is incredibly helpful.

Re comparing applications and gap years, at a UCAS meeting this week, school said that if we were comparing appmications for say the last 2 years, there was a lower birth rate than the current year 12s, so it will be more competitive for our Y12s (and then harder in subsequent years as the birth rate had increased). This has become another factor to consider!

DahliaMacNamara · 05/02/2023 00:33

@Amboseli you won't need to go back any further for traditional GCSE statistics, as those were taken pre-pandemic for the years in question.

laymenzterms · 05/02/2023 08:05

Amboseli · 03/02/2023 18:51

@titchy I completely disagree. The government isn't willing to fund more university places including for medicine which is crazy as we have a chronic shortage of doctors. Every year there are excellent candidates that aren't offered a place at med school. Not because they're not good enough but simply due to lack of places.

Same with comp sci. So many excellent students turned down simply due to lack of places, not because the students aren't good enough.

If the UK wants to improve it's dire economy the government needs to fund more uni places and invest in our young people instead of importing people with the skills we need because it's cheaper than investing in home students.

It's not that DS wants to go somewhere super competitive for the sake of it, he's in the top 5% of a super selective school and yet he could miss out on a place simply because there aren't enough. He certainly wouldn't lower the reputation of any university he attended.

There are plenty of Computer Science places, not just at universities, but also in apprenticeships. The Government are pouring money into encouraging universities and employers to increase the number of places. It's completely different to medicine, where the limit is due to the cost and availability of hospital placements.

Your son will definitely get a CS place, but you have no automatic emtitlement to one at an elite uni just because he goes to a selective school.

The one young person I know who got into CS at Imperial went to a comprehensive school. As well as top grades, and STEP, he had a string of certificates from various competitions, challenges and courses he had participated in from his bedroom, all self motivated. He also got a Cambridge interview, but no offer - he was pretty shy so may not have been what they were looking for. Their loss.

Simulacra · 05/02/2023 08:19

Following with interest as DD16 (Y11) wants to do CompSci at Cambridge/Imperial/other competitive and I am dreading the process.

I went to Uni as a mature student (STEM) so was restricted to just local Universities (luckily there are a few RG/Top 30 within an hours drive so it wasn’t as dire as you’d think) but it did simplify things for me as I had a narrow focus from the off - DD can choose anywhere to apply to.

Angelik · 05/02/2023 08:32

Amboseli · 03/02/2023 14:36

@JuneOsborne I think they meant everyone who had received an offer and got the required grades would get their place.

But not everyone that applies will get an offer, even if in your application you have the requisite projected grades.

That's my understanding anyway.

It's ridiculous that students have to compete for so few places and that excellent students are turned down. The number of places needs to be increased. Surely that would be good for the UK in general if we want to be a prosperous country.

@DahliaMacNamara yes you're right. The grades are achievable by DS but it's the sheer number of applicants that are the problem!

If he applies to both Cambridge and Imperial both with a 90+% rejection rate he is effectively only applying to 3 universities and I'm wondering if that's a good idea. He also has to do the extra work for TMUA and STEP and it may still amount to no offer and no place.

Is it worth it? A 1st in CS from a good RG uni won't hold him back in life I'm sure but he might always wonder what would have happened if he had applied....🤔It's up to him but I want him to go in with his eyes open and not have his heart set on Cambridge or Imperial which to be fair it isn't.

How do you suggest places are increased? Bear in mind Physical estate limits, finding enough people to teach different specialist topics within the programme in a working week for hundreds and hundreds or students whilst also ensuring students have f2f working group teaching and a personal tutor that doesn't have double digit numbers of tutees?

sendsummer · 05/02/2023 09:13

Computer science degrees are quite a wide ranging spectrum. At one end they are for mathematicians. who want to apply maths to computer science and have the potential in maths to for example eventually create new algorithms, work on complexity theory etc. At another end they are for those who basically want to be programmers but gain a bit more understanding of computer theory and systems. Somebody who loves coding may not be suited to the former type.

SeasonFinale · 05/02/2023 09:27

Cambridge does still make higher than typical offers for those deemed to be at an advantage (ie selective indies) which can indeed be 4 x A star offer. Oxford will make a standard offer.

A quick look at WIWIKAU will show kids presenting with full sets of 9 at gcse and 4 x A star predictions being rejected by Warwick for CompSci. Remember that those who apply to Oxford or Cambridge are likely to have Imperial and/or Warwick on their radar too thus.

Also so many of these applicants have amazing supra curricular. You simply can't predict who gets offers nowadays.

Original poster

Amboseli · 05/02/2023 10:22

@ChewOnALeaf those Oxford stats are interesting.

I did read somewhere that the admissions tests and interviews are designed to weed out those who may be predicted to do very well in A levels through a combination of great teaching and excellent exam technique but who aren't necessarily really deeply into their subject and don't always study and think more widely than the A level syllabus.

Provided unis are ok with a gap year a possible strategy could be to apply to 5 top unis with no safe bet and plan a constructive gap year for the no offer scenario.

Then reapply during gap year with actual grades including a couple of safe bets.

OP posts:

multivac · 05/02/2023 10:35

Just to add to the anecdata - DS is currently applying for CS starting September 23. He has applied to Cambridge, Manchester, York, Warwick and UCL. Currently has offers from M, W and Y. He got as far as the pool for C, but wasn't picked up, alas. York would always have been his insurance; now he's trying to choose between M and W (both 3 A stars I think) for first choice (and waiting for UCL - but I think he'll be swayed by campus). Predicted 4 A stars. He was sad to miss out on C of course - but excited at his other prospects.He's state school educated, but his 6th form college is a good one, so that and our postcode rules out contextual offers.

NoCatsToday · 05/02/2023 10:35

Have you considered that taking a year out, whilst 'optimising' chances on one level might not be the best option for your DC in the long term?

The top courses are very maths based and after a year out from that it may be harder to pick it up again.

With CS it is the largely work experience that improves employment perspectives not which of the top few universities you go to.

Watsername · 05/02/2023 10:38

My DS applied for CS last year. He applied to Imperial, UCL, Durham and Lancaster. He was predicted Astar, Astar, A, A, with outstanding PS (lots of projects and passions for the subject, work experience, competitions etc) and tutor references.

He sat the Imperial online test, but wasn’t invited to interview (if you look on their website they publish actual achieved grades and almost everyone gets all Astars, so I think his grades were too low). He didn’t receive an offer from UCL (I heard a rumour that there were 3500 applicants last year, so incredibly competitive.

He received reduced offers (as a contextual applicant) from Nottingham (ABB) and Lancaster (BBC) within days of applying, and waited what felt like ages for an offer from Durham (AAB).

There we’re stories on TheStudentRoom of 4 x Astar applicants getting no offers that year. I would really recommend putting in some safe options.

Imperial, UCL etc really want top grades even if their standard offer doesn’t reflect it.

I can recommend Durham. It’s a really strong and growing department. DS is loving it.

Original poster

Amboseli · 05/02/2023 10:40

@middleager yes the birth rate thing had occurred to me too.

I remember at DS primary school they had a bulge class in the year above and the year below.

@laymenzterms where did I say I thought DS was entitled to a place at a top uni?

@Angelik I have no idea how places should be increased as I don't work in DoE.

OP posts:

multivac · 05/02/2023 10:44

Watsername · 05/02/2023 10:38

He received reduced offers (as a contextual applicant) from Nottingham (ABB) and Lancaster (BBC) within days of applying, and waited what felt like ages for an offer from Durham (AAB).

There we’re stories on TheStudentRoom of 4 x Astar applicants getting no offers that year. I would really recommend putting in some safe options.

Imperial, UCL etc really want top grades even if their standard offer doesn’t reflect it.

I can recommend Durham. It’s a really strong and growing department. DS is loving it.

Not wanting to derail the thread, but our other dt is hoping for an offer for economics at Durham. How is your DC finding the accommodation/cost of living situation? I've been reading stories that are making me nervous!

ChewOnALeaf · 05/02/2023 10:47

@Amboselias he hasn't done CS before can I recommend he look at Craig n Dave on YouTube who cover not only GCSE but A level CS just so he goes in with a basic understanding which will make his first year of degree easier. With his grade level at GCSE he should be able to get through that content fairly quickly and understand it easily. Also good to add to personal statement that he sourced this himself as his school/sixth form didn't offer it.

Find below a interesting document where you can see how many applications were made to each college and how many offers they made for Cambridge. Predicted grades aren't going to change. Cambridge would not take below their entry. Pre-pandemic figures.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/670222/response/1597939/attach/3/FOI%202020%20408%20Stevens%20data.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

The TMUA test I believe (not a maths person just going off Dc) is not about what you have been taught but whether you can make the next logical step yourself to complete the answer. For the interview it literally went hello, lets start and straight into maths questions. 40 minutes for the first interview and I think 33 for the second.

DC2 is year 12 and has secured an online summer school for a different subject. It is online, two 3 day courses as an extension to his A level and what he wants to study at uni. DC1 also did a summer school which all gets put on their personal statement.

https://www.youtube.com/@craigndave/playlists

Original poster

Amboseli · 05/02/2023 10:55

@NoCatsToday yes I have considered that and some unis don't allow a gap year for that reason. I completely agree that work experience counts for almost more than the uni for comp sci.

@multivac thanks for posting, and well done to your DS. He's got some fantastic offers to choose from.

@Watsername well done to your DS. Yes I've heard of 4 A star students not getting any offers.

There's clearly a lot of competition and not enough places for excellent home students. Imperial for example offer over 50% of their places to international students.

OP posts:

yoyo1234 · 05/02/2023 11:27

I think your id in this post sounds great :

"I did read somewhere that the admissions tests and interviews are designed to weed out those who may be predicted to do very well in A levels through a combination of great teaching and excellent exam technique but who aren't necessarily really deeply into their subject and don't always study and think more widely than the A level syllabus.

Provided unis are ok with a gap year a possible strategy could be to apply to 5 top unis with no safe bet and plan a constructive gap year for the no offer scenario."

Planning a constructive scenarios in a gap year as well and applying with amazing results should make for a very strong candidate. DS if he gets his grades will be attending (where ever he goes) with a year out of straight math and unis seem okay with that. Your DS GCSES are amazing.

yoyo1234 · 05/02/2023 11:28

Opps idea

Original poster

Amboseli · 05/02/2023 12:14

@yoyo1234 did your DS apply for deferred entry?

We were told by school that a lot of unis don't like gap years for maths subjects but perhaps it's not as much of a no no for CS.

We'd have to discuss the 5 top uni application with the school, I'm not sure how well it would go down!

OP posts:

yoyo1234 · 05/02/2023 12:17

Not deferred but he took maths early. He applied and gas offer for mechanical engineering do not as competitive but still one of the most competitive courses. Certainly very maths based .

yoyo1234 · 05/02/2023 12:21

Please excuse typos

Original poster

Amboseli · 05/02/2023 12:51

@yoyo1234 Ok I see. Thank you.

DS1 applied for deferred entry, completely different course and far less competitive. To watch him mature and gain independence during the gap year was amazing. He'd planned it very well, arranged relevant work experience and also did some traveling. Because of that gap year experience he's found it so easy to pick up work during holidays and term time, building even more relevant experience. By the time he finishes uni he'll have everything he needs, a great degree and a lot of relevant work experience.

Which is why I'm really hoping DS2 can do a gap year as an end in itself, not just in case he doesn't get any uni offers.

OP posts:

Watsername · 05/02/2023 14:04

multivac · 05/02/2023 10:44

Show quote history

Given that we were considering London, Durham costs are just fine. He’s in a self catered college which brings down the price.

The only negative thing happened in the first month, which was the well-reported rush for accommodation next year. It WAS as stressful as the news made out. DS did not queue overnight at the letting agents, but this meant he and his friends missed out on the best and cheapest stuff. There was stuff available at the more expensive end, and we thought he would have to sign for something at over £200 a week…. In the end it all worked out ok, signing for £125 bills inclusive (but a little further away than originally intended). I couldn’t believe how early they had to sort it all out!

Watsername · 05/02/2023 14:07

I would think twice about deferring for CS at a top course - it’s VERY maths-heavy. Not doing Maths for a year would be a real disadvantage.

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