Applying for computer science at Cambridge and Imperial

[Amboseli]

DS is in Y12, we're researching unis for 2024 entry.

From what I've looked at so far, on the face of it Imperial seems harder to get into than Cambridge?

Imperial grade requirements are A star AAA whereas Cambridge don't appear to set any requirements for the 4th A level although they ask for 2 A stars and 1 A.

Imperial require STEP papers whereas Cambridge require TMUA which I've heard is "easier" than STEP (although that could mean the pass mark/boundaries are higher).

Imperial ask you to sit an online test before you are even considered for an interview.

Can anyone whose DC have applied to both shed any light?

It's so difficult to gauge. Do people apply for both or is that not a good idea?

And Manchester uni ask for 3 A stars (!) which is higher than both Imperial and Cambridge but no STEP/TMUA.

Others we're looking are Warwick and UCL, also very competitive and maybe Birmingham/Nottingham/Bristol as insurance (A star and 2 As).

No firm decisions made and we need to go and visit etc.

But I would be interested to hear from anyone who applied for CS at Cambridge and/or Imperial to try and gauge just how hard it is to get in.

DS is doing maths, further maths, physics and economics. Doesn't have any predicted grades yet but is achieving 3 A stars and As at the moment.

Thanks!

His interview was in late November. He got an offer in early Jan.

Ds had exams for Imperial in November interview January. He enjoyed interview so fingers crossed.

But he has a Cambridge offer already doesn't he? Should take the pressure off a bit.

He has a Cambridge offer- and it's a low one (A, A, A star) so I think Imperial may offer higher. Your right that's a lot less pressure.

My DS is at Imperial, though not studying Computer Science.

He has said in the past however that at Cambridge for CS they are are expected to learn all the code for exams whereas at Imperial they can take the coding books into the exam (as that is what happens in the real world). This situation might have changed so if this situation is important for your DS do enquire at the open days (for all universities).

In my opinion he should visit both (obvs) and apply for both. There's a greater chance of being given an offer from one of them.

@ItsReallyOnlyMe thanks, yes we're leaning towards applying to both and then 3 less competitive unis.

Manchester seems excellent but wants 3 x A stars which isn't exactly a "safe" option.

We need to find less competitive options that he'd be happy to go to. Warwick is good but doesn't do a placement which is a negative imo. I like the sound of the PWC/Birmingham option.

At this point it's really me looking into unis, DS is really busy with school work, tests, and planning for a research paper they have been set at school. We've discussed it but not in great detail.

Unless things have changed both Cambridge and Imperial do increase their standard offer for pupils from might be described as ‘educationally advantaged’ schools. It was far from unknown for pupils from super selective London private schools to get 4x A*offers.

In terms of competitivity, there are two approaches. In most subjects there is a drop off after the top 5/6. There are only so many applicants with the aptitude to achieve A* in FM and these will be concentrating on the most competitive courses.

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/computer-science?sortby=entry-standards

The link above give rankings of CS courses based on UCAS points achieved. Note Scottish school qualifications tend to attract more UCAS points than English ones hence a good showing of Scottish Universities.

Standard advice is 2 aspirational 2 achievable and one banker, but with Oxbridge/Imperial/UCL and Warwick there is an element of luck with each application. A good applicant applying to the “top” four might get all four, or might get none. There are a lot of stories of applicants getting Cambridge but not Imperial etc.

The alternative tactic is to apply to the top 4, and then an achievable fifth, with a gap year as a fall back. It might mean a tense few months as very competitive courses can take ages to make decisions. Great if you then get an offer. If not you wait till results day and either go to your fifth choice, apply to clearing, or if the results are good, take the gap year and reapply. (Do something interesting and IT related in your gap year!)

In part informed by their COVID experience, Imperial seem to have moved strongly towards group working, projects and a variety of other forms of assessment. Presumably closer to areal world environment.

I don't think students from advantaged schools get higher Oxbridge offers these days, do they? The focus is more about recognising the disadvantages faced by less privileged students, and contextualising their achievements to date. The actual offers are pretty much standard across the board.

Your information will be more recent. Interesting they have changed their approach over the past few years. Cambridge were notorious for their 4A* offers, though everyone we knew who got one achieved their grades. (It used to be a MN argument against taking 4 A levels, as if you did there was a danger your offer might be based on 4.) Imperial seemed to be willing to vary offers even for puils for the same course from the same school.

My DS went to Imperial two years ago. His offer was two A stars, one A (although he did take four A levels). He's from a state school.

Some of his cohort from fee paying schools had offers of four A stars for the same course (physics).

If he applies to both Cambridge and Imperial both with a 90+% rejection rate he is effectively only applying to 3 universities and I'm wondering if that's a good idea.

Absolutely! He just needs to apply to one or two easier options.

My ds is at Imperial. His (4) A level offer was actually lower than that of other applicants who only offered 3 A levels. I think the biggest factor is the entrance test and the interview - that's how they judge passion and ability imo. So many applicants offer top grades, so they rely more on their own assessments.

t used to be a MN argument against taking 4 A levels, as if you did there was a danger your offer might be based on 4

Both my dc took 4 A levels and both got lower offers as a result. So it seems that Unis take into account the extra workload of taking 4 A levels.

In other words taking 4 A levels takes the pressure off as you only need to achieve say one A star rather than 2.

@Pinkdafodils I think it levels out as eg Imperial ask for either 2 A stars and 1 A, or 1 A star and 3 As which seem roughly equivalent to me.

It's the less competitive options we're having trouble with narrowing down. The aspirational are likely to be Imperial and Cambridge.

The realistic possibly UCL and Warwick as they don't ask for STEP TMUA and no IV but they are still very competitive.

That leaves one less competitive one as a back up in case of disaster although in that instance I think it's better to retake and reapply.

We're going to have a plan B in place for the no offer scenario which will be a gap year with relevant work experience and perhaps some extra studying (programming? self taught?) and some fun traveling. And then reapply.

@Pumpkintopf I've read that they do make some demanding offers but then don't ask for STEP. Swings and roundabouts.

My DS (although he applied in October) still has no offers for comp sci. He's had a Cambridge rejection (post interview) and nothing else so far.

He's Scottish with advanced higher predictions of 4 x A star plus one already achieved (so 5 x A stars in total) and nothing to show for it yet. It's a bit disheartening TBH especially as he has won international coding comps and has a PS packed full of super curricular interests and awards. He attends a state comp.

All his unis are notoriously late at offering (St As, Edinburgh, Durham and Glasgow) so hopefully he will have positive news soon.

It is a worry though.......

@Needmoresleep sorry I missed your post and realise I've posted virtually the same thing phrased differently. Great minds!

@Aurea do you have a plan for the no offer scenario which I'd have thought is unlikely given what you've said about your DS's achievements. And no news is good news I think. He's obviously still under consideration which is very positive.

St Andrews, Edinburgh snd Glasgow will have no tuition fees 😀. Good luck to him, his results and predictions are brilliant.

Dc applied to Cambridge for CS and so sat the CTMUA which Cambridge funded, it is the TMUA but the results go to Cambridge automatically. No other university including Warwick, Manchester etc asked for an entrance exam. They practised using MAT papers as there was a lack of TMUA papers online.

Although Manchester asks for the very high 3 A stars all the other university "entry" grades are just that, the bare minimum they take in on. Even though some ask for AAA they don't take many applicants in on AAA grade predictions, they are looking to offer to those that exceed it. There are statistics online to show what grades applicants were accepted in on. Competition is fierce for the top unis, they are always oversubscribed so get to cherry pick. Of course applying to an AAA entry uni takes pressure off but they need to be predicted higher grades in the first place. Dc spent summer ensuring their knowledge of their A level subjects.

We feel that the biggest factor for Dc was their personal statement. Admittedly they were predicted 4 A stars and did achieve them but their personal statement was testament to their love of their subject and a specific area that they had been working on, plus they attended a summer school. All 4 offers were in before the end of the year with only Cambridge being a January decision. Dc was invited to interview but no offer from them.

Thanks Amboseli and Yo-yo.

In the event of no offers, I think he will take a year out and reapply.

He's just been appointed the European coding youth ambassador for Europe's largest coding initiative (trying to be non-identifying) and part of the role involves speaking at events so this may take some of his summer and then it's the next round of applications soon after. He's not 18 til the summer so a year out wouldn't hurt. The problem is that his maths A level equivalent was taken in year 12 (although he has been studying mechanics and physics this year) so I hope that doesn't potentially cause any issues. His school doesn't offer comp sci A level unfortunately.

@ChewOnALeaf could you link to the stats on actual acceptance grades? I haven't seen any reference to CTMUA only TMUA for Cambridge comp sci?

I thought as long as you are predicted their standard offer grades you are eligible to apply? And then they make their decision based on GCSE results, projected grades, personal statement, admissions test scores and IV?

I get the impression the admissions test carries a lot of weight as so many students are predicted top grades.

DS seems to be on track to be predicted 3 A stars and an A but we won't find out until the summer. It's all very nerve-wracking but ultimately it's not the end of DS's career if he doesn't get into COWI.

@Amboseli I will try to find them again, it was a few years ago when we were looking for eldest Dc.. There are always freedom of information requests done as standard that ask unis their stats, sometimes grades sometimes subjects like further maths. Cambridge did call their TMUA, CTMUA as in Cambridge Test of Mathematics for University Admission and they funded it rather than us. It looks like it has changed now anyway and they are withdrawing the test shortly too. It was free if you were applying for G400 Computer Science.

Of course if you are predicted the grades then you can apply but what is aspirational to one can be an insurance for another. My Dc ensured they aced out their grades because then nothing is off limits. I can try to quote out Oxford stats from poor memory as we had a parents' evening for it but I cleared out my email since then. So we were told something like their standard entry was AAA and they had 19% of applicants with 3 A stars or higher. They offered 43% ish of places to those with 3 A stars or higher, then those with 3 A stars then 2 A stars and one A before a small number for AAA. Remember predicted grades are not always accurate.

Yes universities can look at everything, GCSE grades 9 and 8 are classed as A star equivalents, some unis look at the best 8 grades, some never interview like LSE, some don't bother to read personal statements. DC only sat an entrance exam for Cambridge but not the other top 10 unis he applied to.

Re A levels, the vast majority sit 3 A levels. 65.8% of them, only 4.8% take 4 and 0.1% take 5. Most state sixth forms only offer 4 A levels if the 4th subject is Further Maths. The rest of those stats are those that take either 2 or 1 A level. I like research and statistics.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/infographic-a-level-results-2022/infographics-for-a-level-results-2022-accessible#number-of-a-levels-taken-by-18-year-olds-in-england

@Amboseli for Cambridge both 2020 and 2021 applications - number of A star (8s and 9s) at GCSE, check out the one applicant with 13 of these. Predicted grades of applicants, mostly A stars, TMUA scores and who got an offer so you can see the cut point and contextual flags.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/777996/response/1860036/attach/3/FOI%202021%20615%20Shaw%20data.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

@Aurea
I see you said :The problem is that his maths A level equivalent was taken in year 12 (although he has been studying mechanics and physics this year) so I hope that doesn't potentially cause any issues. His school doesn't offer comp sci A level unfortunately."

I'm sure Cambridge wouldn't have tested and interviewed if they didn't think it was worth them meeting him. I think Cambridge have entrance exams etc to check that applicants that have a break from some subjects eg maths are up to entrance criteria .