Applying for computer science at Cambridge and Imperial

[Amboseli]

DS is in Y12, we're researching unis for 2024 entry.

From what I've looked at so far, on the face of it Imperial seems harder to get into than Cambridge?

Imperial grade requirements are A star AAA whereas Cambridge don't appear to set any requirements for the 4th A level although they ask for 2 A stars and 1 A.

Imperial require STEP papers whereas Cambridge require TMUA which I've heard is "easier" than STEP (although that could mean the pass mark/boundaries are higher).

Imperial ask you to sit an online test before you are even considered for an interview.

Can anyone whose DC have applied to both shed any light?

It's so difficult to gauge. Do people apply for both or is that not a good idea?

And Manchester uni ask for 3 A stars (!) which is higher than both Imperial and Cambridge but no STEP/TMUA.

Others we're looking are Warwick and UCL, also very competitive and maybe Birmingham/Nottingham/Bristol as insurance (A star and 2 As).

No firm decisions made and we need to go and visit etc.

But I would be interested to hear from anyone who applied for CS at Cambridge and/or Imperial to try and gauge just how hard it is to get in.

DS is doing maths, further maths, physics and economics. Doesn't have any predicted grades yet but is achieving 3 A stars and As at the moment.

Thanks!

@Watsername yes I know. It's a shame as DS was looking forward to a gap year but it looks very unlikely now (assuming he gets at least one offer).

I'm glad I started this thread as the Manchester 3 A star requirement was puzzling in comparison to Cambridge and Imperial. But it seems in reality you need 3 A stars for them as well despite what they say on their website.

Talk to admissions people at unis to get their take on it not just what the school think. They are the best to advise about a year out. CS is usually maths heavy at uni, DC says lots of further maths content has been helpful.

Also start a list of possible universities and get out there and visit them whilst they are full of students, so February half term or May half term. Campus unis feel dead if you go over summer when pretty much everyone has left. Open days are great but a lot of students are not there.

@multivac re Durham, don't forget that they can go into private halls of residence as well as houses, so en-suite rooms, 24/7 security, games room, tv room, laundry etc. Next year Ds will pay £187 pwk but that is a 40 week contract as final year whereas this year it is 51. There is a Durham thread on here for everyone connected to Durham, prospective students, current students, alumni and even a couple of lecturers plus those that live there. Beautiful place.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/4443623-Durham-University

Re cost of living Ds pays around £35pwk for supermarket shopping but does love to cook rather than convenience meals. £7 ish for laundry.

@ChewOnALeaf thanks I will check with the unis but I think generally a gap year isn't allowed unless there's a very good reason.

It's going to be difficult to visit unis during half term as DS has so much homework and May half term is definitely out as they have exams straight after.

We'll have to go to the open days in June.

@Amboseli I'd forgotten about the May half term study leave. Sorry. Go for a weekend visit then if you can. Dc gets 5 weeks Easter holidays from uni so check the uni term dates to make sure you go when the students are there. I do feel it makes a difference.

@ChewOnALeaf Easter is more feasible but as you say need to check uni hol dates.

Need to narrow down options first. I chatted to DS yesterday and he knows this already but I said the odds are against getting into Cambridge or Imperial but we'll give it a go without having our heart set on it. I still wonder whether it's really worth all the extra stress and effort when he's going to have a great career regardless of which uni he goes to. He likes cyber security and quantum cryptography and it's a huge growth area with no shortage of good jobs.

If you get an offer Oxbridge will admit you with the offer grades, normally AAA. I know someone who had a contextual lower offer this year though so they must do that.

Their algorithms score you based on predicted A levels, GCSEs (not sure if they used these with the pandemic TAGs), the entrance tests and interview. They publish what weight they give to which. The test normally holds a lot of weight and can be practised and therefore ‘gamed’.

@ExeterYork thank you. I need to find the info on what weight is given to admissions test. Probably quite high?

Oxbridge admissions test can be practised using past papers and "gamed" as you say.

But Imperial do an online test which can't be practised as there are no past papers etc but I'm guessing it's testing logic and problem solving skills rather than A level content.

STEP really puts me off Imperial tbh. Even after getting through the IV assuming you get that far you could fall at the last hurdle. Depends how much DS wants to go there ultimately. If it was me I don't think I'd bother!

Thank you

We are in the same boat....ds wants to put Cambridge, Imperial, Durham, UCL and St Andrews. Loves them all for different reasons. I think he should drop one of these for a slightly less competitive one (Manchester for example), but he won't listen to me. He is also applying abroad.

I can't say I am looking forward to it next year. He is a top candidate but so are all the others applying...

May I urge caution with all top choices? There have been many kids on student room, etc, with no (or very few) offers for comp sci with three or four A stars predicted and great supercurriculars.

@Travelban I second the warning about applying only to those courses which are insanely competitive. I would highly recommend putting something a little less competitive on there.

Yes fully aware but it isn't my university application and he wouldn't budge. He is applying abroad as well and his point of view is that he would rather go abroad than go anywhere less competitive. He is pretty much guaranteed one of his competitive abroad choices, based on his SATs and GCSEs so I think that's his fall back position.

I do agree it is risky and he is fully aware as he has seen the student room posts.... 😳

My DS is currently finishing his second year at Birmingham studying CS. He achieved A* in maths and further maths. A in CS and economics.
He was rejected after interview from Cambridge and also rejected from the PWC apprenticeship at Birmingham.
He's about to do his year in industry (important in a competitive industry like CS apparently ) he has very good friends doing the PWC apprenticeship and the CS society at Birmingham is huge! And very social. He also gets a £2000/year bursery.
Not sure what the point of this post is, but ask any questions about Birmingham!

I mean not sure what the point of my post is, not yours 🤣

@Amboseli It's ridiculous that students have to compete for so few places and that excellent students are turned down. The number of places needs to be increased. Surely that would be good for the UK in general if we want to be a prosperous country.
That is an impossible scenario. Because everyone who got the grades would then all want to go to one of 3 unis and that's clearly ridiculous. Of course each uni has ti limit spaces. There is the physical space aspect too. People need to engage some sensible thinking and not get all emotional

@potatohead1 if there are more and more people applying to uni every year then places need to increase. Exams also need to be marked much more stringently so a far fewer percentage get the top grades. Then there should be enough spaces for the very best students to go to the top unis.

Grade inflation and turning down excellent students helps nobody, especially not the prospects of the UK which are dire.

STEM students from abroad generally go back to their country after graduating or a few years later so we don't benefit from their education yet they take up 50% of places at university. We end up with a skills shortage in crucial areas such as maths and physics which holds back our economy.

The UK is a mess and the education system is a big contributor to that.

@Amboseli there are not more and more people applying each year. Applications are down and have been falling in recent years. I do agree with you that the assessment procedure needs a complete overhaul. Relying on final exams at a level are a poor way of determining most able students. It's also not how most universities assess although oxbridge are very exam heavy.
I also agree that too many school leavers all have the same top grades which suggest the system is. It differentiating enough. Universities take overseas students but because we don't have enough but because they pay more. Should this be allowed? I don't know. No - sis fed should go to Uk dc or yes - fees from overseas students funds more spaces for the university as a whole 🤷🏻‍♀️

STEM students from abroad generally go back to their country after graduating or a few years later so we don't benefit from their education yet they take up 50% of places at university.

Overseas students pay around three times the fees that UK students pay. Universities are essentially businesses so it’s not surprising that they will fill places with those students that pay the most.

Comparing my experience in the 80s to my DC’s in the 2010s makes me think that today’s students are not getting anything near the input that I had in terms of teaching and lab time because of the need to get paying bums on seats.

I know that Bath was definitely in clearing for CS late August. Could be a good 'insurance' choice?

Looking at UCAS Extra just now, Lancaster, Surrey, Reading, Newcastle, Liverpool, York and Manchester are still showing as having vacancies for Comp Sci courses.

Hi, OP -

A question for your DS and other applicants is what approach to CS suits him best. As @sendsummer and others have pointed out, Cambridge and Imperial are hugely different in this respect. Either the theoretical or the more pragmatic approach may suit him much better than the other.

I write as a former RG STEM admissions tutor and personal tutor who has seen the importance of a good fit countless times. It can make all the difference.

Your DS has 5 choices. What about choosing Cambridge OR Imperial according to which suits him best? Then two or three realistic aspirations such as Warwick and one or two dead certs? It is a brutal year. But a good CS degree from anywhere is an excellent qualification.

FYI, STEP grades are calibrated by Cambridge so that about half of Cambridge Maths offer holders will fail their offer. Using it for CS admissions is therefore quite a reach IMO, nor is much of the content particularly relevant. TMUA tests potential and seems much more germane to me.