Medicine - 2024 Entry

[LaMereDuChat]

Just thought I'd start a thread for anyone else who feels like me... Dd has just announced that she'd really like to apply for medicine. It seems pretty much impossible to get into and I'm dreading the process as the odds are stacked against her - private schooled, grades a bit iffy as she's chosen a language as an A-Level and it's hard, though she loves it. Anyone want to join the pity party 😬?

Horses for courses. SGUL is a hospital based university only teaching medical sciences. It is not one of the “traditional” big name London teaching hospitals like Bart’s, Thomas’s or the Royal Free, which have been absorbed into larger London Universities so offer a wider student experience.

It is in Tooting, a nice diverse South London suburb with lots of green space, a Lido and fantastic South Asian food. Tooting is on the northern line so there is easy access to cheaper accommodation further south.

We have met lots of Doctors who trained at SGUL who liked it, describing it as small and friendly. When DD was a teenager she used to meet students from there when playing sport with local clubs. But that is part of the issue for some. If, say, you are keen on sport there is lots of scope to play for good south London teams, but you will probably find the SGUL provision lacking. Ditto music. London itself offers fantastic opportunities, but SGUL not so much.

In short SGUL is worth looking at if you like the idea of a friendly hospital based environment. It should not be dismissed as “London” as Tooting is quite different to central London. However the smallness and lack of broader student experience might put some off.

(Because she knew several people studying there, DD went to an open day really expecting to like it and to have it as one of her options. But discovered it was not for her.)

I think that the reason St George's is not as popular is because it is effectively a stand alone medical school whereas the others are integrated parts of universities so students get that whole university experience.

To add, it is popular with med students from the area. You can save lots of money living at home, and DD would have been quite happy continuing with existing activities and friendship groups (in our experience lots of London school children go on to study at London Universities) whilst making new friends amongst University peers. It is worth considering.

For 2023, Sheffield was 2850 and Newcastle 2870, you're better off picking other safer choices.

Hi Joining in as DD is applying this year and sat UCAT yesterday. She got 2900 SJT1, which is fantastic and better than in practise tests. Her academics are strong (mostly 9s and A-star predictions)

She’s like to apply to St Andrews and Newcastle. As an English non-contextual student, are these a bit risky? Her score is great, but seems borderline for these last year.

@Savourycrepe my dd got a similar score and we were delighted but now feeling it may be “risky” for some choices. It’s a pretty stupid system that requires so much strategy and planning - not at all a level playing field.

@Notcontent Agreed. The scores have moved so high in recent years so even a great score can be risky for quite a few places/let alone working out the scoring system for each med school. I’m thinking that is she has two ‘guaranteed’ interviews then two borderline may be OK, but of course that could backfire.

@Savourycrepe with 2900 she should be able to guarantee 4 interviews. With SJT 1 and perfect GCSEs then Nottingham a good option (unless VR was a disaster). Sheffield, UEA, Southampton, Leicester, Exeter (if predicted a couple of A stars), UEA, Plymouth all should be 'safe'. Bristol and Newcastle would be riskier choices - who knows if UCATs gift stabilise a bit this year.

@Savourycrepe St Andrews is again risky, but if she loves there and Newcastle, then applying to these and hoping UCATs come down a bit, and 2 lower UCATs is an option. But you half your chances of an offer with 2 interviews not 4.
Remember, all medical schools produce good doctors. They'll have fun where ever they end up.

Thanks @mumsneedwine We’ll keep an eye out for when they publish the interim UCAT, though I’m inclined to think that St A may be too risky for an English non-contextual, though Newcastle is probably worth the risk

It will be really interesting to see the interim UCAT. It does seem like cut offs just keep getting higher. My DD doesn't have a perfect raft of 8's and 9's for GCSE so there's a few out of the running straight away on a different basis. Its definitely a learning curve figuring out their best options with them.

DDs UCAT was not great, so she made an early decision to only apply for medical schools which she both wanted to go to, and which were likely to consider her, and to plan for a gap year, probably adding BMAT to the mix. (She is very dyslexic so not good at timed tests, which is also an issue for others whose slow processing speeds are down to having English as a second language etc.)

The main thing was to get good A level grades, so the focus was on gap year planning. If she had had to reapply she would have gained from the experience of applying first time round, would have been a year older/more mature and would have had grades in hand.

In the end she got three interviews (KCL, Birmingham and Bristol) and two offers. (She got in the last year Bristol did not use aptitude tests. Given that at the time they had 17 applicants to a place it is not surprising they switched.) By then, and all three of her interviews were in March, DD was quite attached to the idea of a gap year, so she asked to defer and was lucky enough to be able to.

Not getting a good score is pretty devastating as you feel you are starting a difficult process with your hands tied behind your back. Two other medical school applicants at DDs school were in a similar position and by March the three were hanging out together in the sixth form common trying to ignore excited talk of Universities, accommodation and others plans. Both were the first to congratulate DD when she got an offer, even though they both ended up without anything. One then got a (single) offer the following year, but one is enough and she went on to be at the top of her year. The other also took a gap year with the intention of reapplying and took a gap year job with a media company where he did extraordinarily well. So well that the firm offered a bribe for him to stay on and skip University altogether and for him to realise that even if his father was a successful doctor, medicine was not for him.

UCAT is miserable, but overall getting the grades is more important. It is worth trying to block the rest out and focus on these.

@Needmoresleep trouble these days is that UCAT has taken on so much more importance than when ours applied. V few options if not a good UCAT.

Yes, hence the idea of accepting that this year may be tough and, whilst doing your best, make alternative plans, including for a gap year. DD was also considering applying to Ireland, though for that you needed a language GCSE and four top grade A levels, ideally including maths. (And indeed though it did not require UCAT the odds of a Bristol place in those days was pretty tricky. Many schools including DDs advised not to apply.)

My observation is that these threads tend to be dominated by those with incredibly accomplished DC who get top UCAT scores and four offers. Not surprising in that people want to share their excitement but don't want to be seen as bragging IRL. However this means it can be really tough for those whose chances of getting a place are significantly reduced by a low UCAT. DD ended up feeling quite bolshy. As far as she was concerned she would make a good doctor. She had strong academics, had loads of volunteering and had held school leadership positions. If the system thought that her ability to take timed tests should be the determinant, so be it, but the system was wrong.

Her school gave the good advice of treating it as a two year process. At the end of the day no one is going to care if you get four offers in your first year of application. The important thing is that you get one. And this is more likely if you try not to let the process get you down but really nail those A level grades.

@Needmoresleep lots of people contact me privately to ask for advice with v normal UCAT scores. Lots get in by carefully applying.
There are a few Unis left that look at other things, Keele and Sunderland being two. UCAT is used differently in so many places it is possible to pay the odds.

I thought it might be useful to share our experience. I was trying to be helpful in that UCAT scores announced so far seem to be quite high, and I felt that this might feel intimidating. It may be that those with lower contact you privately, but in which case it might be a good idea to highlight this.

My understanding is that MN is there for ordinary mums to share experience. Each of our kids will have different priorities. DD, as a Londoner, wanted to be in a reasonably large city. She would have had a reasonable chance of Keele, as she had strong volunteering, but did not particularly want to go there. Sunderland did not exist when she was applying. Second time round she would have considered a wider range, probably QUB as well as Irish Universities and perhaps Malaysia.

She has never for a minute regretted her gap year, and the savings from the work she did was very useful.

She may have taken a different approach from that advocated by MN but it worked for her, and she seems to be really enjoying F1. Busy, and with more responsibility than she had expected, but really social and supportive, and obviously the first pay packet.

Good luck everyone. I still think that the days when different Universities employed different criteria was better. Focussing on just UCAT risks either students spending time practicing when they could be using their time developing other skills, and missing out on some that are not good at that sort of test but who will still make very good doctors.

@Needmoresleep 😊 your DDs experience sounds amazing, and I hope she's enjoying F1. Everyone has a totally valid story. But things have changed a lot in the last 3 years, making that stupid UCAT even more important. I wish there was more of a variety of entry routes too.

I give up. I was just trying to suggest that people should not despair. It was tough for us, but focussing on treating it like a two year process can be one way of approaching it. And of course there are options like Sunderland.

It was meant to be helpful. Obviously not the four offers that sound pretty normal on MN but this does not matter.

DD is really enjoying F1. It appears far better organised and supportive than med school and there is a much better sense of team work. It probably helps that she really did want to be a doctor, so she is relieved that she has finally started work.

🥺 I'm not sure what I've said wrong this time. I think you do take what I type the wrong way every time we interact. Not sure why, was trying to agree with you 🤷‍♀️.

Anyway, up to date info is being put on Uni websites as we sit here typing and am updating the spreadsheet as fast as I can. Next year going to be even more unsure with no BMAT !

We can leave it. I was just trying to be constructive. It was awful at the time, and not doubt has got worse since. None of DDs Bristol friends would get in now and some will make really super doctors. The other difference is that Bristol appears to have become a list more affluent. Gone were the days when a good PS (voluntary work had to be evidenced) would get you in. Now priority goes who can sit in their bedrooms practicing tests, rather than those who are active in their community. DD got through it and so will others.

I believe, though I know mumsneedwine disagrees, that it does matter where you go. Different Universities have different teaching styles, different placement options, and different living environments. One priority for DD was to intercalate, as she had a fairly clear idea of the sort of medical career she wanted. Anecdotal evidence is that reapplicants with the right grades do better. So perhaps a decision on whether to opt for Sunderland or try four riskier but more attractive choices with a reapplication as a fall back.

I still don’t know why I was tagged three times on a thread I was already on.

Hi
my daughter is due to sit her ucat next week. What were your dc getting in their practice attempts in comparison to the actual test?

Also, she struggled with her GCSE’s due to having undiagnosed dyslexia. So her results weren’t as favourable as she’d hoped.
(she’s been predicted A*, A, A for her A levels)

Which uni’s are best to apply to with weaker gcse results?

@Bananaandmarmite any of the UCAT only ones will be good. And if fab work experience then a few come into play, or weird grade 8 music or dance and then there's Kings. Once have the score get in contact and we can have a look. As long as have 7 7s you're all good.

Bananas and marmite my dd is very similar. Undiagnosed dyslexia she got a 7 and 2 6's the rest 9s. She was getting 2700-2900 in her mocks but got 3100+ in the real thing. Best score she got. There are lots of unis who rank for interview solely on ucat. Most of those at set at under 2900, or at least they were 2 years ago. Still catching up on last year. And also many who do a calculation including gcses. Ones my dd can discount straight away include edinburgh and cardiff, probably birmingham. She could apply to nottingham based on the calculator. It all depends on that ucat score and what combination of things each uni take into account. Good luck with that UCAT!

My younger DD has finally got her dyslexia diagnosis via Bristol Uni at the ripe old age of 21. Never too late !

Thinking ahead about interviews, does anyone have any thoughts about the likely success of someone who is clever but perhaps not overly confident or articulate?