Medicine - 2024 Entry

[LaMereDuChat]

Just thought I'd start a thread for anyone else who feels like me... Dd has just announced that she'd really like to apply for medicine. It seems pretty much impossible to get into and I'm dreading the process as the odds are stacked against her - private schooled, grades a bit iffy as she's chosen a language as an A-Level and it's hard, though she loves it. Anyone want to join the pity party 😬?

😁but you don't know what I do....
Anyway DD is now at a state college and so far getting a lot more support / Information about uni courses than her older siblings who stayed at their private school.
Just sometimes frustrating as lot of interesting things (not just medical) are not available to her.
But Mumsnet is always a good source of information 🙂

God, why are our children choosing to do this to themselves if junior doctor life is the big reward! 😁

Hello! Thanks for starting this thread @LaMereDuChat thought I’d mark my place. Ds still seems set on applying 😰.

He’s at a state sixth form. So far he’s had a few sessions looking at bmat past questions in a small group. He’s been volunteering once a week at a dementia home since Aug 22’. We can’t seem to find any shadowing opportunities yet however. He’s also done a few virtual work experience sessions. @mumsneedwine how important do you think the public facing part time job is? I’m unsure how he’ll fit this in.

So far he’s thinking Cambridge (his dream since yr 9). He likes the sound of intercalation and the course structure there so it isn’t just a whim. He’s interested in Scotland and Wales too however being from the south east I’ve heard it would be harder to get into these? He has perfect GCSEs and I’m assuming he’ll apply for 2 bmat and 2 ukat schools.

ds is also dyslexic, independent & self led.

We are not a medic family at all! Thank goodness for the internet / mumsnet! 😂😳
Ds puts a lot of pressure on himself but loves learning and so I’ve already said an offer anywhere is a huge achievement plus applying the year after (if rejected etc) is very normal!

Ds also said he would rather avoid large cities. He also says he’s on track so far for 3 a* predicted. I think academically he’ll be fine but I do worry about how his dyslexia might work against him in interviews?

do any of your dc’s know where they might apply?

Thanks to the advice earlier on this thread I looked at the local hospital 's website and they are offering quite a few different work experiences, most are just 1 or 2 days. Good variety. Not limited to summer holidays.

Btw, dd starting to volunteer in same hospital; be prepared for a long process as it took dd about 3 or 4 months.

In my experience Scottish med schools and Cardiff are no harder to get into than all the others. However, each med school has slightly different methods of selection, so, for example, Cardiff begins by looking at GCSE results. Exeter places heavy weighting on UCAT, some unis look at student performance in specific sections of the UCAT test, and so on.
As a state school with a large 6th form we have between 5 and 10 students applying for medicine each year, and the majority will receive at least one offer, provided they have done their homework on which med schools' requirements suit them and they have some direct experience watching doctors at work/ talking to doctors. It doesn't have to be huge numbers of hours or days - quality not quantity.
The EPQ or Welsh Bacc is useful in bolstering an application because of the independent research and wider reading element.
Best advice for the UCAT is masses of timed practice during the summer. Book test for September seems to be sensible advice.

IHave. Make sure he ticks the disabilities box on his UCAS form, he should then get access to some support.

If he doesn't want a city I know a couple of students have gone to Keele who've had dyslexia. That's a lovely campus.

IHave. Edinburgh seem to usually only invite the top one percent of UCAT scores for interview but I do know a student who is in the top two percentage who has been invited this year.

It is possible to get in but they don't offer many places to Students from the rest of the UK. Think it was 17 last year? Accommodation also seems expensive. I don't know if that's a concern.

I'm a GP and my son has dyslexia and I advised him against medicine. He wasn't that bothered anyway but there is a LOT of reading and stuff to memorise in medicine and lots to write/ type and when dealing with patients you have to type quickly. Some work can be dictated but often as a junior you don't have your own computer. My son's strengths were logic and maths so he went in to an area where he thinks more and writes less and is happy. As a GP I spend all day reading letters and results and admin tasks and typing. Some specialities have less words involved but you have to get through med school and the junior doc years to get there. Many young people get caught up in the competitive hoop jumping of the admission process and don't think enough about the job. You need a thick skin as well as you get moaned at a lot

Why are odds stacked against her if she's private schooled? In my dds cohort of dentistry 50- 60% were private schooled so I'd say that's an advantage.

Thanks @2Rebecca I don’t think I could advise him against or push him into anything. I feel like it has to come from him. Interestingly I have two friends who are gps and both are dyslexic. They discovered it when they were sitting exams in their 3rd year. (They live too far away for ds to shadow unfortunately) I don’t see ds becoming a gp. He’s currently interested in neurology.

I’m dyslexic and I’m successful in my career. Ds has that incredible memory / hyper focus and types fast. He usually gets the digital version of books etc and listens. He can absorb so much this way. I’m sure you’re right about the thick skin though.

But I do feel sad there is still a stereotype around dyslexia - that it is a disadvantage? Ds is such a creative thinker - he got ten 9s etc. We don’t see neuro-diversity as a negative in our family. We champion it.

Scotland has quotas for English students so it is much much harder to get in. And Cardiff have now openly said they are favouring Welsh students so again much harder if English.
Cambridge are changing their course structure but I think in 2025, the same year the BMAT is going. But keep an eye out as things change quickly in medical school applications.
It's hard to say where you should apply until you've sat UCAT as so many use the score to short list. Don't look at required entry criteria (everyone has that), dig down for selection criteria (or pop over to 2023 thread and look for the wonderful spreadsheet - I'll try and find it for you when get a minute).
And having any kind of contact with customers or the public can be incredibly helpful as it builds confidence for interviews but also proves an ability to time manage and show resilience. As one admissions tutor said 'I'd rather have someone who works a lunchtime shift at McDonalds than someone who worked with mummy or daddy on a ward'.

And BSMS do a great virtual work experience, as do Kings. There is also a good one on GPs (just forgotten for now who runs it).

Here you go. 2022 applications stats. How each UCAT Uni uses data to shortlist, and the cut offs for this year. These will change every year but are a guideline.

PS Exeter need 3 A star predictions and a v good UCAT. Weirdly they will offer AAA. There are some strange things when applying for medicine 🤷‍♀️.

PPS can you tell I should be working 😂.

From the perspective of a doctor...

Your daughter is probably best off applying to the less traditional medical schools. I went to HYMS, which was less lecture based and more clinically orientated right from the start. They cared more about us as whole people rather than just grades on paper.

But being realistic, has your daughter talked to any doctors? Make sure she knows what being a doctor is actually like, because the first few years are horrific. If I knew at 16 what I known now, I'm not sure I would've applied in the first place.

Happy to be DMd if you want to ask anything specific!

@sleepyfelines most courses are now much more integrated from the start. Even Cambs are going to change to have earlier patient contact ! Some even train you as an HCA so you can work bank shifts.

@mumsneedwine thank you!!

@sleepyfelines are you thinking about my ds? Nothing has deterred him so far and he has researched quite a bit. He’s been hanging out with a 3rd year medic student at the dementia home he’s been volunteering at. He also really enjoys lectures! He’s dyslexic but very academic - plays chess for his county etc.

He’s already decided. I’m surprised that the dyslexia thing is such a ‘thing’ - this sounds like old fashioned thinking?

I'm just here to give him any pointers later on.. re strategy.

He’s spoken with gps. They’re all completely doom and gloom. But it’s not put him off. By the time he graduates/doesn’t I’m hoping the nhs might be in better shape. I’m an optimist ;)

If possible, I'd suggest he talks to doctors who are still in training posts (junior doctors- anything below consultant/fully qualified GP). Medical students can explain what the course is like but even they often have little idea of what it's like to actually be a junior doctor.

The first two years are changing departments every four months and not uncommon to change hospitals as well. Once in specialty training change hospitals every 6-12 months with little to no control over where in the country you work. Gruelling rotas that leave you with no time/energy outside of work. Constantly feeling like you don't have enough time/staff/resources to do a good job. During day to day work doing more admin than actual medicine, then being expected to manage seriously ill patients without supervision/support on nights and weekends. Being refused annual leave for important events. Having to pay thousands each year for GMC, medical indemnity, BMA, portfolios, training courses, exams...all of which are mandatory.

GPs are doom and gloom for a reason, but at least they're finished training and have a permanent job and no longer have to move around frequently. Junior doctors have it even worse. And with the recent changes to applications for specialty training (including GP), it's now more difficult to get a training post, so excellent doctors are languishing for years in "clinical fellow" or "trust doctor" roles, with no chance for career or salary progression and often the worst placements despite their level of experience.

I know I sound like I'm trying to put your DS off, but I wish someone had told me this when I was applying.

If he hasn't already, reading Adam Kay's book "this is going to hurt" and the BBC series based on it is really useful- the most accurate I've read/seen.

But you don't have to stay in the UK once qualified. I'm afraid this is the plan of many many medical students at the moment. Get through F1 and 2 and then go locum around the world for a few years. Or do F3,4,5.... as no exams and can earn a lot doing much less work. Until the NHS is sorted out this will be a thing. V v sad.

Fair point!

We’ve been watching ‘this is going to hurt’. It’s very good and I’ve heard it’s quite a good portrayal. we don’t think Adam Kay is very nice though and perhaps went into it for the wrong reasons? He’s left the nhs now hasn’t he?

I suppose in terms of f1/f2 and what you talk about these graduates of course won’t know any different? I don’t think he’s under any illusion it’ll be easy. However it certainly won’t be boring.

The way Adam Kay's character on the show is portrayed by the actor is different to how Adam is in real life.

He left the NHS partly because after a horrendous experience (won't say exactly what as may be traumatic for some people to read, as well as being a spoiler for the book) he was expected to carry on as if nothing had happened. He was just a line on the rota, canon fodder to try to keep the ward functional. Unfortunately it's still the same now.

Bu a "pyramidal" system has been the case for decades, that there are many more juniors than consultants. Many of the clinic fellows etc are being filled up by foreign graduates..
Just been counting, so out of roughly 20 doctors in our department 1 privately educated Dr, half are foreign graduates and that leaves about 5 state educated ones.

I think those with highest stress levels might well be the consultants but then I obviously don't know what goes on with everyone's personal life.

Someone I know well is a go, retirement age and certainly felt a lot more stress after having completed his GP training.