Do students doing "harder" A levels get lower offers?

[Sarahcoggles]

DS is in year 13 and is about to submit is UCAS form, hoping to study geography.

Looking at universities, they all state their entry requirements in A level grades or UCAS points.

DS is kicking himself for choosing 3 tough A levels (history, geography and French), rather than choosing subjects like sociology, media etc which are traditionally less demanding. French in particular is incredibly difficult, totally different from the GCSE. He says that his offers will be for the same grades as pupils doing easier A levels, but will be much harder to achieve for him.

Is he right? Or do universities modify offers depending on how challenging a particular subject is?

Please don't accuse me of being snobby by the way. It's just simple fact that further maths, for example, is going to be more difficult than health and social care.

it appears Media Studies snd Business Studies are the hardest to achieve A star in as only about 1.5% achieve it in these subjects.

Well that's probably not because the subject is more difficult!

@Sarahcoggles I am sorry that your son is struggling with French (MFL specialist here). I think the newer GCSE is at least better prep than the old one - which didn't even include any translation, so a completely new skill to learn.

What is he struggling with in particular? I may be able to suggest some ways to improve.

Do you work in education btw?

Why do you think that media and business students are not up to scratch? My dd is at one of the commonly listed top unis and opted for a media unit. It just didn’t suit her. She is an A grade student and the subject just didn’t suit her. Doesn’t mean she’s not bright. It’s just different skills.

Can I jump on to this thread and ask about doing a MFL as a non-native speaker?

My dd wants to do Spanish 'A' level (along with English and politics) because she likes it. A few friends I've mentioned it to have said similar to posters on this thread about it being very hard to get a good grade if you're not bilingual etc.

It hasn't occurred to me to discourage her from doing is because she may get a better grade in an essay writing subject like history or geography which she was considering.

It's okay to do a MFL just because you like it, isn't it, rather than trying to predict uni offers in a couple of years time?

It depends on which uni she wants to go to and to which degree.

My dd2 has Spanish as her 4th. Over half in the class are native Spanish speakers and it’s really put her off. It’s also marked harshly as a subject

My ds did French A-level, not a native speaker and didn’t start learning the language until year 9 (but got a 9 in his GCSE). He got an A*. We were pleasantly surprised, given the MFL reputation for non-native speakers! I advocate people choosing the subjects they enjoy the most, not playing around with subjects they think will be “easy.”

Doesn't know what university (if any) she wants to go to, to do what subject

She's 15!

I appreciate that some teens have this all sorted out, but not all of them.

I'm taking the 'do what you're interested in' route.

Choosing a subject you are interested in and enjoy was the the main advice given to my DD who is currently making her choices. At no point were any subjects painted as being harder (apart from further maths and physics/chemistry)

The secondary advice came from current a level students and was to think about the balance between essay and non subjects.

As others have said, whether a subject is easy or hard is dependant on the student's capabilities as much as anything. Dd found Religion, Philosophy and Ethics really easy and got A stars throughout sixth form and as her final grade. She was at a grammar school with lots of high achievers but they didn't all get A stars, because they didn't all find philosophical thinking easy.

If you look at someone else's exercise book/text book, social sciences and history will look much easier because the subject matter makes sense to you even if you've never studied the subjects before. But that doesn't mean that you'd automatically have the skills of reasoning, analysis etc that are required to get the highest grades.

Maths/Physics always looks hard to a non-specialist because it's total gobbledegook!

Yes they do, some universities publish "league tables" of how difficult they consider each subject, with for example, Biology considered harder than Chemistry. Other universities use such league tables, but don't publish them. Geography is not considered hard, by the way.

Yes, this might be reflected in the offers made

Shinyredbicycle · Today 02:58
"Can I jump on to this thread and ask about doing a MFL as a non-native speaker?"

My DS did Spanish and (like any MFL) it's a great choice. Firstly, a language is a skill for life. Secondly, they don't only learn about grammar etc - they study a historical period in some depth, alongside a Spanish novel and a film. It's a bit of history, literature, politics and sociology all rolled into one. There will be students (nationally, even if not at your DD's school) who are native speakers or part-Spanish); or who speak related languages such as Portuguese or Italian, but don't let that put her off. If they have a flair for languages, it's still very possible to get a top grade.

comparing grade boundaries and percentages in different subjects is pointless. MFL is skewed by native speakers, STEM subjects by GCSE requirements. There will always be outliers but the % of As will have a connection with the % of As of the comparable subjects in the GCSEs of the cohort taking the exam. Interests and strengths was the main advice I gave to my DCs.

Yes. I agree.

Maths A level students tend to get a high percentage of A* and A because they have a natural flair for maths. The same goes for most "academic" subjects. Students choose them because they achieved a high grade at GCSE.

It is often the untried "woolly" subjects that weren't necessarily offered at GCSE where the students struggle more. What I mean by wooolly is where there isn't a black and white right answer like you have in STEM subjects. They are more subjective.

At DD's school a lot of students chose psychology A level because they didn't do well enough in their GCSEs for enough other A level subjects. The year 12 syllabus was content heavy and boring and a lot of students dropped it.

I hope this makes sense.

"Hard" is subjective but I wouldn't consider those subjects as particularly tough. Don't diss sociology, there's a lot of critical thinking required.

My son studied Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry. He had to get two A stars and an A to go to his preferred university. His lowest offer was two As and a B.

I agree that "hard" depends on the individual ... he has a passion for maths whereas I followed a linguistic route and can't even help my year10 child with their maths homework

My suggestion would be to think a step ahead. Does she want to go uni and what sort of work. Look at what’s on offer at uni or apprenticeships. There should be access to a careers person at school. Also not many young people know what they want to do. It’s the process that’s important.
its also worth pointing out that studying language can be done in many ways including additional
units whilst at uni or through lifelong learning for adults.

Interesting re psychology. At DDs school it has the highest entry requirements of any A level, with minimum grades in Maths, English and Biology required.

That would make sense @Withholdingvitalinfo. Students needed a minimum of a grade B for psychology at DD's school (she took her GCSEs in 2016).

Also, a lot of the less academic students opted for psychology because they didn't do well enough in their GCSEs to take the more traditional "academic" subjects, so maybe your DD's school does this to deter the weaker students from taking what they think of as an easier subject. DD's school didn't offer psychology at GCSE.

Chemistry is much harder than biology ime. Chemistry is a lot of maths.

DD is at a grammar and they also don’t offer Psych as a GCSE. My observation is that Psych is v oversubscribed.

It is at A level and uni.
Students like the idea of it but the reality is very different. I tried it. Hated it. Would rather do algebra and trig.

Lol each to their own. I’m trying to dissuade DD from it as a degree choice as I know how competitive it is, as well as what is required post UG to get into it and how competitive this is. Of course the more I do this the more attractive it becomes to her, because teenager 😂

I often read the WIWIKAU Facebook page, and the most oversubscribed subjects seem to be law, psychology and computer science.

Interestingly, I have just googled what are considered the hardest A level subjects and this is what I found in order of difficulty:

Physics
Further maths
Chemistry
Biology
Computer Science
Maths
MFL
Psychology
English Literature
History
Economics
Politics
Business Studies
DT
Art

Geography doesn't even come close.

Chemistry is much harder than biology ime. Chemistry is a lot of maths.

Biology may be harder for students who are better with numbers than words. The maths in A level chemistry is 'easy' if you're also doing maths and physics, there's nothing really tricky.

Also Economics massively oversubscribed.

I know this from first hand experience as DS just started it at Uni this year. Many of his (high achieving ) friends had very few offers.