Do students doing "harder" A levels get lower offers?

[Sarahcoggles]

DS is in year 13 and is about to submit is UCAS form, hoping to study geography.

Looking at universities, they all state their entry requirements in A level grades or UCAS points.

DS is kicking himself for choosing 3 tough A levels (history, geography and French), rather than choosing subjects like sociology, media etc which are traditionally less demanding. French in particular is incredibly difficult, totally different from the GCSE. He says that his offers will be for the same grades as pupils doing easier A levels, but will be much harder to achieve for him.

Is he right? Or do universities modify offers depending on how challenging a particular subject is?

Please don't accuse me of being snobby by the way. It's just simple fact that further maths, for example, is going to be more difficult than health and social care.

I think this is way more subjective than you are allowing for.
My Dd did 3 essay subjects (history, English literature and geography) that she found relatively easy but required a lot of work. All her friends did sciences and maths - which were much less work during the 2 years but she would have found them harder because she would not have enjoyed them. I think there is less predictability with essay subjects whereas with sciences and maths it seems more unusual to not get the grades you "deserve".
My DC now is doing a language. It's definitely their hardest subject but they don't regret it. It does seem unfair though that over 80% of their cohort are native speakers of that language.

Sure. But even the past 4 years it’s changed drastically

Hi OP - there is no such thing as an 'easier' subject because this is obviously subjective! However, the subject with the most (and most complex) content at A-level is apparently Economics (according to the head at DS' school).

Every year, much higher proportions get A/A star grades in Maths and Sciences then in humanities subjects and languages. This is why grade requirements for STEM subjects at universities tend to be slightly higher - ie. more students will actually be awarded those grades, so more 'filtering out' needed.

Languages are harder to get an A because students are up against native / semi-native speakers. I think it's something like only 7% get A in most MFLs, whereas in Maths, it's more like 18% (this is in a normal year, not the Covid years, btw). So at Oxbridge, for example, the minimal grade requirements for STEM (or other subjects requiring Maths) will be A star, A star, A, but for other subjects like Geography or MFL or History or English etc, it is A star, A, A. Lower grade requirements for humanities courses also take into account that there is more margin for subjective variations in marking in those subjects, whereas in Maths or STEM, the marking is more binary.

Where it's gone bold it was meant to say A star (A*).

The Stem subjects usually have higher grade GSCE requirements, it’s mainly 7 where I am. So technically the filtering out has already happened so it stands to reason that there would be higher grades. They cannot really be compared as the cohort taking the exams are not comparable

Ds didn't get any reduced grade offers on his 4 A levels, physics, computer science, maths and further maths. Whatever their entry grades were ie A⃰ A⃰ A or A⃰ AA that was his offer. The universities were over-subscribed as were the courses he applied for and they get to pick who they want. Ds was predicted and achieved 4 A⃰ s.

For him English Literature would have been a very hard A level whereas he loves maths, likes the straightforward answer to a question at this level. He chose subjects he loved, not for ease or difficulty in the eyes of others.

It's unfair to say some A levels are easier choices. They aren't. Some people may find one easier than others but they are not easier in themselves . Some people would find it much easier to get an A in French than in sociology

There's also selection bias going on.

The students who choose Further Maths are generally very good at Maths - a very high percentage tend to get too grades (don't have the exact figures right now)

On the other hand, those choosing say Sociology may not be so good at 'sociology' so grades tend to be lower/

My daughter will chose her A Levels this year to start 6th form next year. The advice we've been given (by the school she's at now and the 6th form she'd like to go to) is that she should do at least 2 'facilitator' subjects out of 3 otherwise she could risk not being given offers at particular unis. Facilitator subjects seem to be the more academic subjects.

My son is at a uni and I doubt he would not have gotten onto his chosen course if he had picked subjects that were not facilitators. Most of the students he knows there did 2 facilitators at least.

Ds didn't get any reduced grade offers on his 4 A levels,

My dc also did 4 A levels and his offer was Astar, Astar, A, A.

If he had only done 3 A levels then he'd have to had achieved 3 A stars.

So I'm a way, the offer was a little easier to achieve.

there’s some choices that are obviously easier but surely for all the mainstream options it’s subjective? We personally think geography A level is relatively easy, but I would struggle with history or English.

Facilitating subjects may still exist in people's minds and it isn't bad advice to encourage more academic students to choose at least one but I can't believe schools still use that term. It suggests they aren't very up to date to me.

Oxford and Cambridge both happily accept, nay teach, sociology.

@Piggywaspushed I didn't mean my DS's 4 ALevel subjects were harder it was the fact he did 4 A-Levels and an EPQ that is why he got an offer of 1 Grade lower than the admissions requirement. This was explained by a lecturer at the universities Open Day before the summer that doing this combination is a heavier workload than 3 ALevels only and therefore they offer a slight reduction.

MFL is difficult to get a top grade in as native speakers tend to opt for these as an easy A level for them. Grades are given on a curve so top grades go to native speakers. I advised my dc to not take MFL at A level as a result.

Different subjects test different skills. I loved science and was good at it. Give me psychology or sociology and it’s not in my skill set.

But yes universities won’t give a lower grade for subjects like maths of MFL.

What does he want to do with his degree? Is a different subject route a viable alternative?

OK, misread you. Sorry!

Also, some universities will slightly reduce grade offers if student is taking an EPQ (if student achieves an A).

Also, some universities will slightly reduce grade offers if student is taking an EPQ (if student achieves an A).

It's only fair that students doing an extra A level and an EPQ have lower entrance requirements.

It’s not if they’re doing an extra A level - it’s the EPQ.

Reduced offer if studying 3 A levels plus EPQ.

wow there's a lot of snobbery on this thread... there's no such thing as 'softer' A levels ! Universities got rid of the elitist facilitating subjects a few years ago thank goodness https://www.tes.com/magazine/archive/russell-group-universities-scrap-list-facilitating-subjects

No - OP, this is silly. Subjects are easy or hard depending on the students' strengths. I've known many a student find, for example, maths and German really easy, but English impossible.

Geography has also traditionally been seen as an 'easier' A Level subject anyway (although as I said, it depends upon the student).

Grade boundaries are a factor as well. I teach English and students are often shocked at how tight the grade boundaries are in comparison to other subjects- for instance maths or science. Does this make English harder or easier than maths or science? There isn't a definitive answer.

So your son has to fo the best he can, and please don't encourage him to blame the difficulty of the subject if he isn't doing as well as he would like - that won't be helpful for him in the long run.

That doesn’t guarantee that when admissions are deciding between two students they won’t choose the one with more academic a levels.

On the plus side OP, whatever happens with university, hopefully your son will be able to speak French. That's a great life skill to have and hopefully he'll get to use it loads throughout his life.

At my ds school, students can't choose maths/further maths for Alevel, unless they achieved grade 8 and above at gcse. Whereas for other subjects, they can get in with grade 7. My eldest did maths, further maths and physics, got 3 Astra's, and is now studying maths at a top uni. His brother is choosing maths, further maths and economics, and is expected to achieve grades 8 and above in all his GCSE's. I don't know what he will do if it all goes wrong. The pressure is so high now. Decades ago, I only needed BBC to take law.

Bath UNi routinely offer at a lower grade (eg AAB instead of AAA) if there is an A star or A in EPQ. This is whether they are doing / have done three or four A-levels.

I just checked - on 2019 (last normal non- Covid- affected year for grades), 18% of all maths A-level applicants were awarded A star. For FM it was something like 24%!

Most other subjects are between 4 - 9% A star most years - the various MFL, sciences, history, geography, economics etc fall into this range. In fact, it appears Media Studies snd Business Studies are the hardest to achieve A star in as only about 1.5% achieve it in these subjects. I hadn't realised this.

One student's difficult is another person's easy.

I agree. DD took biology, chemistry and geography - all considered academic subjects, and did very well. She would have really struggled with history and English Literature, which are also academic subjects, but science subjects are perceived as more difficult.