Is Russell Group still the main event in University terms?

[Sportycustard]

DS is bright. He's Y12 in a selective 6th form doing A levels in computer science, music and maths. His GCSE grades in those subjects were 9,9,8. He's also achieved grade 7 in two instruments.

He's been looking at universities and has his heart set on doing a music production degree. He's in a band and produces all of their music so he does have some experience. He knows that the music industry is super competitive and we have zero contacts in it. He's also interested in TV production and sound engineering as possible careers.

All the courses DS wants to look at are at newer universities- ex polys in my day - and some were, I suspect, HE colleges. The A level requirements for the courses are low, typically BBC or less. His teachers think A*AB is a realistic prediction for A level grades.

I'm trying to sound encouraging but inside I am fearful that he is going to waste thousands of pounds on fees and end up with a degree that isn't respected at all and he should be aiming higher.

For context, DH has a good degree from an RG University and I have good degree from a red brick. We both graduated when tuition was free and DH graduated before loans were even a thing. We're ancient!

Are we hopelessly out of touch? Are there newer universities that are OK? Am I right to be concerned or do I need a head wobble?

Salford
man met

Both media production depts based at Media City, Salford. Great opportunities for work experience and contacts.

Do RGs do that subject as a degree? I’d be surprised. The first Universities that come up on Google are Derby and Northampton…

This is my concern. If the respected universities don't offer it does that say something about the subject?

I don't want to kill his dreams but realistically we're a boring middle class family with no contacts living miles from London. We're not media types and contacts count in creative industries

I very much doubt that the industries he wants to go into will be looking for RG universities on his record. There will be good & not do good ones to go to but being an ex poly doesn't automatically make them bad.

salford has a good sound and audio engineering degree as well.

Search for Springpod- they recently had some virtual sessions in audio engineering.

I would suggest looking at courses with good links to the industry. Ideally with a placement if possible.

this is one of the league tables for media film. But note that these look to be theoretical courses.

www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2020/sep/05/best-uk-universities-for-media-film-studies-league-table

If he's that bright he will do well whatever he does and likely excel in his chosen course.
My cousin has just graduated from Bournemouth in film/digital media production. Working freelance, earning ridiculous money and booked out months in advance.

I’m not entirely sure what subject my nephew (my much older sister, had him young) did, but he did something music related at Leeds Beckett and earns more than me - a STEM Graduate who also has a Masters from an RG Uni 🥴 However, my sister and her husband are creatives and in the industry, I would be sending my DCs their way for advice if they were creative types, because I wouldn’t have a clue.

I'd definitely recommend he looks at Confetti (NTU), their facilities and contacts are amazing, they're based in Nottingham but opening a London campus next year. My son did his Television production degree there and doing very well since graduating all because of the contacts he made through the course.

confetti.ac.uk

My friends ds is currently at confetti at sixth form and is looking at York and Newcastle for music production, both of which are RG

www.leedsconservatoire.ac.uk

Goldsmiths Electronic Music, Computing and Technology

Guildhall School of Music and Drama
www.gsmd.ac.uk/study-with-guildhall/music/principal-study-and-departments/electronic-produced-music

Is he doing 'music production' because he wants a job in that area? point out to him that most people do a degree in something more general (like music) and then move into production later. he could do just 'music' at an RG uni and then pick up other skills & contacts along the way, which a bright motivated kid can do. And it is often more useful to have a more general training at undergrad level. Look at module titles for 'music' at RG universities and see what the options are.

But if he really wants 'music production' in the degree title, then RG unis do not have the right departments or industry contacts for this.

instead, he needs to be looking at an applied uni like the ex-polys. Salford sounds like it could be an option. Goldsmiths might also be interesting.

My Bournemouth graduate friend who did that course is bloody minted and lives and amazing life in California!!

www.bimm.ac.uk

London Brighton Berlin etc

UAL Music Production

100% this. Experience and contacts will be worth more. For sound engineering experience, he could join a hospital radio station - the vast majority of volunteers are interested in presenting rather than technical so they'd bite his arm off.

I assume it's studio production he's interested in but a lot of production can be done from home with the right software - he could volunteer his services to local bands or for a low fee and build a bit of an online presence.

I don't think it matters too much where he gets his actual qualifications in the music industry.

Look at the conservatoires and the arts Unis. They have always been a slightly separate group sitting outside of the RG/ poly thing as they offer really applied programmes for people with practical talents.

Basically he wants a programme where entry is based on an audition/portfolio not just on ucas points/ a level grades

Yes!

Lancaster's not Russell group and it does very well in the charts. Lots of good unis aren't Russell group. It's never held me back, they want a degree they don't really care from where as far as I can tell.

OP I can't comment on music production but I totally get where you are coming from! My DH and I are RG grads in mainstream subjects and our DS is pursuing Art and Design. He's in a Foundation Year at DMU and got 2 A stars and an A at A level but would have needed BBB at most for most degrees if he had gone straight to degree). Most of the art courses are at old polys or specialist art schools. Because they have the facilities and contacts and trad unis don't.
It's hard to get your head round and I am not sure league tables really help. You have some great ideas here. Visiting was key for us as you can get a good feel of their links to the real world. Placements etc. I think selective schools (DS was at one too) can be a but sniffy about ex polys but they have much to offer.

Absolutely @OneHundredOtters what they said,arts unis and conservatoires are the way to go, a lot of them are very competitive and have really good courses . My advice would be to aim as high as he can in the field . Audio engineering and production degrees can offer excellent on the job training with good job prospects .

Forget RG. Really it's the individual course that counts. My daughter wants to do animation - University of Hertfordshire is second in the world for 2D (Rookies) and number 1 in UK (Guardian), but mention it in most other contexts and it's a middling university.
Even without that consideration, so many excellent universities are not RG - Bath, St Andrews - you could hardly say those are second rate!

It do depends on the subject. Traditional universities are good for traditional subjects, if you want to do something applied often newer universities are offering more innovative programmes and also have strong industry links. If it's music production then you won't find it everywhere, look at subject specific guides

Don't discount an apprenticeship as a route in to this sort of work e.g. www.mia.org.uk/2022/05/live-sound-production-apprenticeships/