to reapply to imperial

[butterflyflutterby123]

Please read to the end, so sorry its long but very lost and need the advice. DD is 18, and applied for university this year, mechanical engineering degrees. I don't want to sound like a mum who thinks their child is the best and is totally naive, but she is incredible clever.

She has always been top of her class and way ahead of her peers (its been a learning curve to cultivate healthy friendships while being extremely intelligent - she goes to an all girls school, but clever girls are still not highest in the social pecking order 🙄). She got ten 9's and an a at gcse, and is now taking maths, further maths, physics and biology, she has already taken an epq and got an a (she did it on a history topic; she doesnt actually find sciences easier than arts, she loves them both)

there's the background, here's the story. she applied to 2 different imperial courses (mech and aero), ucl, bristol and kings. she wanted to apply to cambridge, but decided against it for financial reasons. she had an amazing ps and loads of work experience (inc 2 summer work experiences at engineering firms) and is predicted 4 a*s. she got invited to take the entrance exam for both. it was a very weird setup, they weren't really told what to expect or given past exams to practise. She fonud the mech one extremely easy and breezed through it (twice - she had to retake it when imperial had a technical difficulty...). she got invited for a mech interview. she was unprepared for the level of difficulty of the aero exam and wasn't asked for an interview. She's not too upset about the aero place, as she already decided she wanted the mech course. She had an interview which went really well. the examiner was very pleasant, and told her he could see she was very passionate and interested.

I'm so sorry to say, but uni rejections were never even on our horizon. I know it sounds horrible and arrogant, but it didn't cross our mind, she has passed every academic test with flying colours. she was very upset when she got rejected from the mech course. she eventually got feedback saying a. some other candidates did better problem solving then her and b. she didn't use a lot of technical language in the interview. This is upsetting because no.1 her interviewer didnt ask her any problem solving questions!! he focused entirely on her work experiences. also, isn't she supposed to get the technical knowledge in the course?

anyway, she has been very mature and philosophical about it. she got ucl, but she really wants icl because she can specialise in nuclear engineering in the 4th year of her MEng. she's not crazy on the idea of going through the whole application process next year on her gap year, but really wants to have a mech+nuclear degree. also, if she reapplies, she automatically loses her ucl place and has to reapply there too, and thats a risk (stupid ucas)

is ucl as good as icl?
is icl still a cold and lonely environment?
does having a year of nuclear help her get nuclear engineering jobs?
is it risky losing ucl?
any other general advice?
why did a 4 a* alevel and perfect gcse grade student with work experience, volunteering etc (objectively the perfect application) get rejected?

thanks for sticking with me <3

To be honest this story that is perpetuated on Mumsnet about Imperial being some place where you send your kids to get ground down in workload and over run by Chinese is tiring.

Thanks. DD spent a year studying for an intercalated degree at Imperial, and really enjoyed it. Professors working at the cutting edge in their fields, a really bright and international student body, and well organised. (It was during Covid, and the switch to online was impressive..) Yes it was demanding and challenging, but for her this was a positive. The sports facilities were good and she found her people.

Different strokes for different folks.

Ds has had a great first year at Imperial. But, he is very driven and intelligent, so may not have to put in quite the level of work that would be needed if you were struggling. That's not to say he doesn't work hard, but he does many other things, including being one of the Felix editors (lots of work and research), two martial arts, and some niche clubs and externally organised regular events. He also really enjoys popping to the odd art exhibition and gallery, generally making the most of London. He went to the recent Extraction/Abstraction exhibition, which he loved. For the top tier, naturally brilliant students, Imperial is perfect.

In terms of accommodation, he had very reasonable halls for his first year. He's found a lovely flat (fairly straightforward process) for second year with two friends (and applied for student halls too, which he did actually get offered). He didn't encounter any queues round the block when doing viewings, but there were other groups viewing at the same time. About 15 groups viewed on the same day. If you want a place, you have to react very quickly, put your offer in and do the paperwork. But, it's all achievable.

One of mine is or recently was - being deliberately vague here - at Imperial.

It’s really not a “story perpetuated on MN” that DC get “ overworked” and that Imperial is “over run by Chinese” (a pejorative way of putting it) - it’s a reality in some courses.

@Needmoresleep with respect, you have to accept that one year of Imperial during the pandemic when almost totally online is not going to give a complete picture. Many students can deal with working very hard for one year, but the relentless pressure to do so for at least 2 or 3 is when the problems can start. Your DD’s experience cannot compare to those who started and finished their degrees there.

Imperial is amazing. But it does have factors that are, if not unique, then different to many other universities. Many students are overworked according to DC.

For the top tier, naturally brilliant students, Imperial is perfect.

@PandaPacer quoted different figures from FOI. They should be accurate

?! I think you’ll find it’s 12 deaths by suicide in Oxford the city, not the university.

I agree with your implication @SkillDuggery that no university or degree programme is perfect for all whom it admits. My own ‘top tier, naturally brilliant’ YP was a perfect example of this, being a poor fit for a world Top 10 in their STEM field but somehow managing to talk themselves into a world Top 5 as a transfer student even after a bad year. The second uni was a great fit and turned their life around.

I also saw this doing admissions in my own STEM School, just below COWI in terms of rankings. We were a regular Insurance choice for COWI applicants but more strikingly I processed a few COWI transfer students who simply felt poor fits at their original universities and were not thriving. Perhaps they did not meet the PP’s definition of ‘natural brilliance’ but I tend to think someone who uses that phrase glibly doesn’t have a very profound appreciation of its meaning.

I didn't intend any glibness to my statement about naturally brilliant students, although some have inferred it that way, it was meant in the purest sense.

University entrance and UCAS courses are a meritocracy and not all students are equally gifted academically. It's good that there are a range of options. Imperial sits within the top bracket and can expect to target and accept appropriate students. Of course, for some, any university choice can be a poor fit. Academic rigour is by no means the only factor to consider when choosing a higher education institution, but there seems to be a huge emphasis put on it, to the extent that potential students feel the pressure of accepting a higher ranking place, even if it is a poor fit. This doesn't benefit anyone.

It helps if students begin the process with resilience and fair expectations. I've personally found that both these traits can see them a long way.

Ds is enjoying Imperial and I stand by the fact that he is 'naturally brilliant' and we have the Educational Psychologist reports to back that up. At Imperial he's able to find a similar cohort of students. For a naturally academic and intellectual child, this can be a place to thrive and a very engaging learning environment. A highly pressured environment to one can be happily stimulating to another.

@Greenbamboolo , I would really really recommend reaching out to someone on that course, if it’s the Dyson Programme its very separate to the rest of Imperial and I believe quite different

@PandaPacer "Especially on a post where a mum has spoken about how much her child worked and sacrificed to get in" Thanks. Obviously everyone has very different experiences, but DD is feeling good about where she is at right now and is happy with her choice. I hope it stays that way!

This is a tricky post. I will start by saying that I very much respect you for writing it, and that I completely agree with you that too many YP simply aim to attend the most highly ranked degree programme they can be admitted to. This can be a mistake; the aim should be to go where you can thrive and that can involve a highly personal mix of factors.

My YP had similar cohorts and indeed friends at both excellent universities, yet only the more demanding one was a good fit.

We have a different attitude towards the intellect. I think it is too complex to parse effectively and my YP never really cared either; just wanted to be known be their results. Some of their mentors have used words similar to yours with me, but usually with a caveat about YP’s modesty or disinterest. I think that’s much the best. It’s your results that matter.

I am reminded of possibly the two most famous physicists of the 20th c. Albert Einstein really was a genius in the conventional sense but was thought slow at school and would surely have thought the idea of testing and tracking school children nonsense. Richard Feynman (also a Nobel laureate) was thought to be the most intellectually powerful physicist after Einstein. He was also a brilliant (if sexist) expositor of science for the public. He constantly joked about his modest measured IQ. So the psychologists are surely missing something.

It’s great that your DS is thriving at Imperial. For all that we agree some students are under pressure to attend a university that may not be best for them, I suspect this is to do with a more complex set of qualities than can easily be measured

Thank you. That’s good advice. DD really likes the course; she went to the open day and she said is higher percentage of coursework which she really enjoys. I am going to follow her lead, she has done the research. She went with a friend but we are going again to the open day in September and speak to as much Design students as possible.

We also live in London so she could do first year in halls and commutte easily from 2nd year. It will save us quite a bit of money too.

She wants to apply only for that course; If she doesn’t pass this year; she wants to reaply next year with a few other options.

@Greenbamboolo Good luck I hope it all goes smoothly!

Thank you very much