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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Soft A levels

234 replies

Judy1234 · 06/01/2008 14:59

What annoys me about the article on page 1 of today's Sunday Times is that some state schools are not telling children that some Alevels are a load of rubbish or rather they aren't counted by the universities. Of course accountancy, law, theatre studies or any other studies are not going to be counted in the way as maths, French, history. All children know that in private schools and yet it says some state schools are keen for children to do the software easier a levels to get their places up in the league tables even at the cost of children then being surprised that the 3 As in needlework, cooking and gym don't count for much at Oxford or Manchester.

Some universities are publishing their lists of A levels that don't count which is helpful.

This might be why state school pupils are finding it hard to get into the good universities..."new analysis.. shows a gulf was emerging between state and private schools as comprehensives opted for soft A levels and independents and grammars tightened their trip on traditional academic subjects..the task of widening participation becomes harder." Most of the country doesn't have grammar schools so the cleverer of the the children in the comps are the ones suffering from this.

Media studies 95% non selective state schools take that. For sciences fewer than 1 in 10 A level pupils in non selective schools takes sciences compared with one third in grammars and independents.

OP posts:
hanaflower · 07/01/2008 17:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoffeeCrazedMama · 07/01/2008 17:34

Xenia, many thanks for those helpful pointers about English degrees. Good to know my (and dh's) gut reaction was right (we both went to school and uni a long time ago on the other side of the world!) Dd has read this thread with interest too now, and it has made an impression (so thanks all!)

Judy1234 · 07/01/2008 18:37

That's good.

On music I think it's just that it's very hard to make it as a musician and having instead an Oxford music degree might give you more to fall back on than just music college in case you try to make it fail an then just need something with a good degree.

OP posts:
ThreeBluecubs · 07/01/2008 18:38

Pls excuse my ignorance - what are considered the 'Russel Group universities'?

Quattrocento · 07/01/2008 18:45

I am giggling because I had not previously made the link between an A level subject with the word "studies" in the title and totally dossy A levels.

This from a gal who actually did general studies ... don't know why we did it but it was expected of us ... no lessons at all ... sat it in the lower sixth ... didn't count for any university entrance at all.

Funny

Quattrocento · 07/01/2008 18:46

Oh and Hana

I got an A too. And I was an arts student

(preening right back at you)

incy · 07/01/2008 18:50

Russell Group -

University of Birmingham
University of Bristol
University of Cambridge
Cardiff University
University of Edinburgh
University of Glasgow
Imperial College London
King's College London
University of Leeds
University of Liverpool
London School of Economics & Political Science
University of Manchester
Newcastle University
University of Nottingham
Queen's University Belfast
University of Oxford
University of Sheffield
University of Southampton
University College London
University of Warwick

ThreeBluecubs · 07/01/2008 18:51

Ignore my Q - just found the answer (& good to see my old uni on the list despite it having merged with a local not-very-good college!).

ThreeBluecubs · 07/01/2008 18:53

Sorry Incy - I posted without looking at your post below - thanks.

RustyBear · 07/01/2008 18:53

DD is doing an AEA in Psychology. She's doing 4 A2s, plus General Studies, which is pretty much regarded as a waste of time by most of the students at her 6th form college. I think they are right, as DD got 100% in the politics module exam - this was the girl who a few months earlier had vastly amused her friends by saying she thought Gordon Brown was a song by the Stranglers.

Buckets · 07/01/2008 19:17

English Language A Level isn't a soft option FWIW, it's just very very different to Eng Lit. I did it at A Level and liked it so much I went on to do Linguistics at UCL. Always hated Eng Lit personally.

Quattrocento · 07/01/2008 19:20

Well it's quite an unusual A level isn't it? I read Eng Lit but I would've done Eng Lang too had it been available.

arionater · 07/01/2008 19:31

You're quite right buckets - in fact I often wish there was some compulsory language content to English at school, it would help a lot, for instance, when students are struggling with middle english, because some of them have no grasp of any linguistic concepts whatsoever - but I still think it's pretty shocking that English Literature wasn't being offered at all, and for this girl at least it had really limited her options.

Ubergeekian · 07/01/2008 19:40

The unspoken rule has been simple for some time: no subject with "Studies" in the title counts. Why, as someone pointed out, would you take "Historical Studies" instead of "History"? Or "French Studies" instead of "French"?

"... Studies" simply means "a watered down version of ..." and that ain't going to win friends at any good university.

I keep very quiet about my O-grade in "Classical Studies". No latin or greek, you see.

Habbibu · 07/01/2008 20:51

Call it Classics, ubergeek...

PaulaYatesbiggestfan · 07/01/2008 21:23

great thread
any thoughts on RS ( philosophy and ethics) for someone thinking of ppe at Oxford

(other possibles at this stage Chemistry Maths Economics - would drop one at a2)

Habbibu · 07/01/2008 21:26

No idea about what would be best for PPE, but think Maths, if you can do it, is a great A level to have. It was my worst exam result, but still almost the one of which I'm most proud...

Lilymaid · 07/01/2008 21:32

Paula - I would think that RS would be OK for AS only or as a fourth A Level for PPE but that admissions tutors would probably prefer the traditional academic subjects plus a demonstrable interest in at least two out of three of philosopy, politics, economics.

purpleduck · 07/01/2008 21:40

Alot of people have mentioned that 15/16 year olds have to make a big decision regarding their future without a whole lot of counselling. I agreee
I am also training to be a careers advisor and have this to add:
Every person in my class was motivated to be a careers advisor because of the absolutely crap advice/(non advice!) they were given.
In many cases, Career Advisors are trained to not challenge students - to just basically "explore", and encourage them to look up thigs on their own (not neccessarily bad for every student)
* In many schools, Connexions provide their Careers Advice. Fine, I think they often do a good job, but generally the interviews are only 30 minutes long.

Thats all

Iota · 07/01/2008 21:44

we didn't have "soft" A levels when I was at school, only proper academic subjects

Milliways · 07/01/2008 21:52

DD is in Yr 12, and she wanted to do A level Eng Lang/Lit, but they talked her ourt of it as "Not so highly rated". She is doing Eng Lit, History, French, German & Maths. This is a normal state school, and they are v.clued up about "soft options" , although they do offer them as some higher qualifications are better than none.

Her 6th form now has >400 pupils, but some are just re-sitting for decent grade Maths & English GCSE.

They promose a place for any pupil who wishes to further their education, but they also offer Oxbridge coaching etc.

Restores my faith in the state system (and I have a DS in a grammar).

harpsichordcarrier · 07/01/2008 21:53

this is a very interesting thread.
I find myself giving ad hoc careers advice all the time at the moment to my nieces and nephews and their friends and boy are they ever getting shit advice.
the single piece of useful advice I got at school was from a Computer Studies teacher who, when I said I might take Sociology A level with History and English replied "why don't you try doing a subject where they don't print the certificate on bog roll"
I took biology instead.
I think a greta deal is to do with fantastically low aspirations for many state school pupils and also (obviously) results driven.
but even in my day (pre choice, pre OFSTED, pre league tables etc) I had to kick up a HUGE fuss to even take three scincesat O level because it would be "too hard" and I was forced to take a vocational subject"for a rest"
also not allowed to take two languages at O level- too tricky.
it is to do with aspirations.

harpsichordcarrier · 07/01/2008 21:54

Milliways sounds like a great school. I think I heard you talk about it before.
I would be interested to know where you are

Milliways · 07/01/2008 21:56

Reading/West Berks Borders.

DD goes to a West Berks school. They need a new HEad next year - should employ a MNer??

PaulaYatesbiggestfan · 07/01/2008 21:59

thats habbibo and lily although am stringing out a bit now!
ds is very 'green' about all this and quite naive i think
he has no vocational drive and wants to work in the city god knows where that's come from
he sees oxford as the standard he wants to attain....