Soft A levels

[Judy1234]

What annoys me about the article on page 1 of today's Sunday Times is that some state schools are not telling children that some Alevels are a load of rubbish or rather they aren't counted by the universities. Of course accountancy, law, theatre studies or any other studies are not going to be counted in the way as maths, French, history. All children know that in private schools and yet it says some state schools are keen for children to do the software easier a levels to get their places up in the league tables even at the cost of children then being surprised that the 3 As in needlework, cooking and gym don't count for much at Oxford or Manchester.

Some universities are publishing their lists of A levels that don't count which is helpful.

This might be why state school pupils are finding it hard to get into the good universities..."new analysis.. shows a gulf was emerging between state and private schools as comprehensives opted for soft A levels and independents and grammars tightened their trip on traditional academic subjects..the task of widening participation becomes harder." Most of the country doesn't have grammar schools so the cleverer of the the children in the comps are the ones suffering from this.

Media studies 95% non selective state schools take that. For sciences fewer than 1 in 10 A level pupils in non selective schools takes sciences compared with one third in grammars and independents.

Perhaps more just apply or for more sensible subjects. 30% is very high.

Swedes: "What are his current school doing wrong or what are the other school doing so right?"

You are falling into a terrible and common error: believing that getting children into Oxford/Cambridge if automatically "doing something right". I taught engineering at Oxford for many years, and in that time saw many unhappy students who shouldn't have been there. Schools crammed and spoonfed them through A-levels then hurled them all at Oxford or Cambridge without considering whether it was the right course, subject or study style for them.

Result: three or four years of great unhappiness and far worse result than they would have had at a more suitable university.

And, of course, they took up places which could have gone to somebody who'd have appreciated it.

Please, please, please don't let your son be pushed into Oxford/Cambridge so the school can willy-wave in its prospectus. You can make up for a wrong choice of primary school. You can make up for a wrong choice of secondary school. University is a one shot deal, though, and if he goes to the wrong place he'll be regretting it in thirty years.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

And ... relax.

Ubergeekian - He isn't being pushed into it. Far from it. Interesting you should say that about Oxbridge when in fact they have the lowest drop out rate of all UK universities. Of course there will be students who have difficulties but they would likely have had difficulties adapting to any university.

Ubergeekian has good advice - I think it's true that being miserable at Oxbridge can be particularly hard, because there is so much pressure and expectation (and pride) from your family and friends that it's very hard to admit if you're not much liking it (I disliked being an undergraduate, for instance, though I wasn't really wretched; even so, I didn't feel able to say I had by and large not enjoyed it - even to myself really - until after I had left). And the teaching terms are so pressured and intense, it magnifies normal late-adolescent angst enormously; a very unhealthy mixture for some students. (And actually I think a pretty unhealthy system full stop.) Academically, it is incredibly fun and exhilarating for those best-suited to it, I loved that side of it, but really miserable for some. Just as with the most academic schools, it's not a place I'd want a child of mine to be in the bottom quarter of, for instance - potentially very demoralising for the wrong person. But I do very much want school students who are keen to apply - on their own behalf, not that of their parents or schools - to feel that they can, and that the process is not mysterious.

Re: the disparity between schools' Oxbridge success - it may partly be allowing/suggesting a higher number of applications, whether wisely or not; and high A-level marks don't necessarily translate into reliable Oxbridge success. The 30% school may be challenging its brightest students more effectively and doing more to stretch them beyond the bounds of the A-level syllabus. Have you tried asking the current school why there numbers are relatively low (they might have a good and well-thought out reason along the lines of uber's comments); or the possible new school whether they are concerned about pushing Oxbridge indiscriminately?

Actually several people I know were unhappy at Oxbridge because they'd been so used to being top dog all their life it came as a major blow to discover in Oxbridge terms they were very average. It wasn't really that the course didn't suit them but that their personality couldn't handle not being top.

My sister wasn't very happy at Oxford although she graduated well but I think that was more just her personality, didn't want to leave home etc rather than the place. I don't regret not trying (and I might not have got in anyway) but it's certainly true that the better the university the lower the drop out rate. That is in part because people who probably shouldn't be at university at all are going to places like Middlesex ex Polytechnic etc.

I don't know the % of pupils who go to Oxbridge at my children's schools but I know it's not just about the grades. Most applicants will have AAA. It's about the other things too.

More Oxford students probably should drop out, instead of clinging on unhappily, resigning themselves to a third and drinking the years away.

Don't get me wrong - it's an amazing place and if your son wants to go there then he should definitely have a bash. After all, it has one of the highest acceptance rates in the Russell Group! However, please make sure he really knows what he's letting himself in for! Most admissions tutors and subject tutors are very happy to speak informally to prospective applicants to help them decide.

Ubergee - He was lucky to have spent the day last year at one of the colleges in Cambridge where he had lunch with the staff and got shown around the accommodation by the porter. He came back completely fired up to go. Completely his choice.

Good news. It will show in interview too - he'll come across much better than the little automatons who have only been pushed into applying so the headteacher can feel superior at the next HMC ...