Soft A levels

[Judy1234]

What annoys me about the article on page 1 of today's Sunday Times is that some state schools are not telling children that some Alevels are a load of rubbish or rather they aren't counted by the universities. Of course accountancy, law, theatre studies or any other studies are not going to be counted in the way as maths, French, history. All children know that in private schools and yet it says some state schools are keen for children to do the software easier a levels to get their places up in the league tables even at the cost of children then being surprised that the 3 As in needlework, cooking and gym don't count for much at Oxford or Manchester.

Some universities are publishing their lists of A levels that don't count which is helpful.

This might be why state school pupils are finding it hard to get into the good universities..."new analysis.. shows a gulf was emerging between state and private schools as comprehensives opted for soft A levels and independents and grammars tightened their trip on traditional academic subjects..the task of widening participation becomes harder." Most of the country doesn't have grammar schools so the cleverer of the the children in the comps are the ones suffering from this.

Media studies 95% non selective state schools take that. For sciences fewer than 1 in 10 A level pupils in non selective schools takes sciences compared with one third in grammars and independents.

thinking more about this thread...
as a previously graduate recruiter, there is a huge amount of discrimination against "soft" degrees too. I don't know how much awareness there is of that among young people.
for example, if someone camealong with a Business Studies or a Media Studies degree, tbh I would have to be very convinced of their potential.it would be a hurdle to overcome at interview.
I would judge that that person had not been particularly tested academically and intellectually.

Yes, I ate in the big hally thing. Was lovely to have a bite of the dream even though I wasn't really up to scratch.
They wanted to know why I wanted to study Egyptology and I couldn't actually think of an answer LOL.

I thought the reason clever state school children didn't get into Oxbridge as much as they ought was because they didn't have the skills at interview, the things to talk about etc. That was supposed to be one of the problems.

I suppose my 3 children applied to 15 universities (not oxbridge) or may be some duplication and only one of them had one interview. Others had none. That might just be that they applied to places like Bristol that didn't interview of course.

My daughter won a cruise down the nile when she was 9 so her UCAS personal statement started with how that led to her interest in the subject. She was seizing her opportunities even then. Picking up about 60 scratch cards from the floor at Gatwick air port when she managed to pick up the number one prize one.

well, it didn't stop me getting in. I found that, comprehensive educated or not, I was actually rather good at talking, having done it for about 16 years at the time of my interview.

Two other people in my year did the same.

Has anyone seen/heard Victoria Wood's med school (I think) interview sketch?

here

is amusing but annoying

harpsichordcarrier - I'm an ex-graduate recruiter too (then became one of those 'idiots in HR' that Xenia holds in such high regard ).

In my day (I'm very old) A levels were much more important than degree subj in assessing intellect. I'm a bit out of touch these days though.

I was interviewed at all mine too, including Bath where I'd applied for a course they didn't even run . Accept things may well be different now, but how do you choose where to go if you don't get a chance to look around when you go for interview?

Open Days, snorkle - they have lots, and 6th forms often arrange trips to local unis (eg from here - E Lancs - they do trips to Manc & Leeds)

I see - would you typically go to the open days before you apply? That would make most sense. We used the prospectuses to apply and then the interviews to choose.

This thread has made me so cross I'm up out of my sick bed to forge some kind of reply.

I hope my kid never reads this because I would hate her to think that anything she chose to study was a 'soft option'.

I was told that one of my A-levels was a 'soft option'. I studied Physics, Biology, Maths and Music. Guess which one I was told was soft? Good job I thought they were talking bollocks other wise I wouldn't have the career in music and working with young people that I love.

When you talk about which A-levels are 'worth having' what exactly are you basing your idea of worth on? Just to get into a 'good' Uni?

I see many students {possibly those many of you above would call less academic] leaving college after taking 'soft A-levels' and using them to become valuable people on the work place. Seems weird to me that someone wanting to go into buisness should take History, Maths and English Lit because the buisness btech would be less respected on their CV.

I had a lad who was excellent at Maths and physics attempt the music Alevel and media course and he couldn't handle the er.. 'soft options' because that's not where his talents lie. Therefore I don;t think you could ever standardise how 'hard' A-levels are.

What really sucks are AS levels....

IIRC, general open day visits are aimed at Y12; they also have departmental open days, aimed at Y13, to help them narrow down their 1st & 2nd choices.

(And having said that reminds that DD1 didn't have an interview at Durham, she went to an overnight departmental open day)(after which she turned them down )

I think this thread is more about choosing the right A levels for your aspirations and having the right advice when choosing them though. And also about keeping your options open if you are not sure. Obviously music is a good choice if you want a career in music, I don't think anyone would deny that.

It is wrong if people think their A levels are the right starting blocks for what they want to do and then find out they are not (nothing to do with softness really). I heard of someone doing law, business studies and maths because he wants to become a lawyer. He's been badly advised I think, which shouldn't happen. It would be just as worrying if a would be medic was doing history, eng lit and French A levels (none of which are soft), but that tends not to happen so much.

What is wrong with AS levels ilovewashingnappies?

ilwn, "When you talk about which A-levels are 'worth having' what exactly are you basing your idea of worth on? Just to get into a 'good' Uni?"

Um - well, yes, that is the general idea here - not to belittle the other subjects as subjects (not on my part anyway )

NB Music is not one of those in the Cambridge list, but Music Technology is. (DD2 took Music at GCSE and found it very hard)

WW I expect people were less willing/able to travel around as much as that when I was applying - it sounds like a lot of university visits - is it all in school time?

Open Days - DS1's school allowed students to take up to 3 days "off" - in period after AS exams - to visit possible universities. I think this is standard practice. Some schools run special trips to particular universities. Open days are generally at the end of June/beginning of July or during September. I was surprised that parents were catered for at open days. When I was a student (in the dark ages) no self respecting teenager would be seen at university with their parents.

I can't remember now, snorkle - the only one I got involved with (helicopter parent alert!) was DD1 and that was 8 years ago.

She had 6 choices then and 5 of them were reasonably local - Lancaster (1 hr away), Newcastle & Durham (both 2 hrs away), Leeds & Sheffield - I drove her to the first 3, and she made her own way to the other 2, I think. (The 6th was way down south and was never really a realistic option.)

There were def on weekdays but I honestly can't remember how it worked around school - whether she actually missed lessons or what. I will ask her if she does!

(The departmental visits were all in the early spring btw - Feb-ish)

DS didn't have any interviews, but got offers from all six of his choices (this was 2 years ago, you're only allowed 5 again now) He did go to open days at all the places he eventually applied for & then a second departmental one at Warwick which was his firm offer ( and where he is now halfway through his 2nd year)

DD went to an overnight open event at Durham last summmer,and has also been to Warwick (which she liked)& Royal Holloway (which she hated) for official open days. One of her choices is Bristol - she spent a couple of days there unofficially at half term with a friend of her boyfriend who's doing the subject she wants to do & said she found out much more that way than at the official events.

The Royal Holloway event was a Saturday, the Warwick one was a weekday, the Durham one was also a weekday, but was in the short gap between finishing AS exams & starting the A2 course

My experience has been that once I had a degree nobody was interested in my A-levels and once I had a professional qualification and my first job nobody could have cared less whether I even had a degree.

My children went to open days with friends rather than parents but a lot of parents do go and enjoy that interaction. It was just hard for us because the oldest was applying the year we got divorced and we had a load of other children too.

I never said the soft options were wrong just that I don't like people doing what someone said above thinking law and business studies are right for a law course when they are almost 100% the wrong A levels if you want to read law anywhere half decent.

(Victoria Wood interview very funny, thanks for the link)

Yes interviews might depend on the subject but certainly there were virtually none for my 3 children in the last 4 years.

We didn't find universities really trying to impress, I just remember a talk on the first day in Bristol saying how many people had applied for each place our children got, cannot remember the stats now.

What should be happening but isn't is students saying I am paying over £3k a year for this and I am only getting XYZ hours a week and not enough help or tutorials. In other words it's moving from ain effect a state school you're lucky to have because it's free to a market for something you pay for (although I think the true cost is £15k a year so £3k is not a big part of that cost).

read a great article on helicopter parenting carrying on through to university life and the job market - really made you want to bow out