Applying to Oxbridge for 2023 intake

[riverpebbles]

Not sure if there is already a thread on this? My son is hoping to apply to Cambridge for Computer Science for October 2023 start.

buckleten my DS read Medicine at Oxford and enjoyed the whole of his six years enormously. He's been working in London hospitals since graduating.

I'm assuming that your DD has excellent GCSEs, although HoneyMobster is right that the BMAT score is more critical than ever, because of the way GCSEs were awarded during the pandemic. My DS had no help from school in terms of the BMAT (they were incredibly supportive generally but offered no help for pre-tests at all, at that time). He bought a book which had been recommended at the Oxford Open Day.... by the tutor who wrote it :) (Sorry, can't remember the name of the tutor but the book was the mainstream one, and seemed to work well in that DS got a very high score). That was it.

DS also read a good deal of medical stuff because it interested him. He only read naturally, so didn't read anything because he felt he had to. Your DD is likely to be doing this anyhow.

DS was very independent and apart from talking in a general way about where he was thinking of applying, and why, he had no input from me, so I wouldn't worry at all about you helping. Parents don't need to - it would be a concern if they did (which is different from wanting to help. The problem would be if they had to).

Good luck to your DD.

public.tableau.com/views/UniversityofOxford-AdmissionsStatistics2020ByCourse/Applications?%3Aembed=y&%3Adisplay_count=yes&%3AshowTabs=y&%3AshowVizHome=no&%3Amobile=true offer rates per course

A quick question for anyone who has already gone through the process.......

My DS is taking advanced higher (Scottish equivalent of A level) maths a year early. He is also due to take four other advanced highers next year (mechanics, physics, chemistry and music). (Schools do not offer EPQ here so he has done a computing focused Gold Crest Award instead).

He's tried to ask specific Cambridge colleges whether the offer would be standard for computer science as he will effectively have the equivalent of five A levels by the end of year13, one of which is early entry. However, the colleges' admissions have been very non committal. Does anyone else have experience of offers for early qualifications? Very few students apply successful from Scotland so I would be grateful for any advice. He's at a bulk standard 11-18 state comp.

With thanks!

@FriendlyLaundryMonster, I can't help with compsci but I don't think not knowing yet whether to choose Oxford or Cambridge is a problem. Your DS does at least know which subject he wants to read. DS hadn't decided which subject to apply for before the summer open days and the department/subject talks at O and C were key to helping him decide. I think this also shows that you can apply successfully without having held a lifelong passion for your subject, providing you have the exam grades and perform well in admissions tests and interviews, of course.

@Aurea , I haven't seen many references to Gold Crest Awards on here. DD did a Gold Crest Award (and an EPQ) and said her GCA experience was a huge help at interview.

Thanks @ofteninaspin

How do the GCA and EPQ differ in terms of difficulty and content? I can't find how they compare....

@Aurea, as far as I know, a GCA is STEM only whereas an EPQ can be in any field.
DD enlisted the help of our local university with the practical aspects of her GCA. They subsequently put her in contact with another university for some sample analyses. It ended up being quite a lot of work. Her EPQ was more straightforward as it didn't have a practical element to schedule and the structure was quite prescriptive. Having said that, a friend of DD's wrote and tested a recipe book in French for her EPQ so there is scope to do your own thing within the structure.

@Aurea - if it's any use, Oxbridge don't count UCAS points as such, but by way of comparison -

an A* grade at A-level is worth 56 UCAS points. An A grade is worth 48.

An A EPQ is worth 28 UCAS points (I think they have to basically get full marks or just one or two marks off that to get the A EPQ). So if you get an A EPQ it's equivalent to half an A at A-level.

One thing I didn't realise when mine did this, if the have a music ABRSM it's worth UCAS points over Grade 6. A Grade 8 (Dist) in music is worth 30 UCAS points. Also LAMDA carries UCAS points at Grade 6 and above.

The CREST awards are not worth any UCAS points for some reason, but they are definitely a good thing to discuss in the PS.

Sorry, din't know why certain parts came out highlighted U.K. there, but the highlighted bits were meant to say A star. So, A star A- level is worth 56 points in UCAS terms. An A is 48 points. An A star EPQ is 28 points.

Also, may be worth noting Cambridge have slightly changed their policy on EPQs in the last year or so, as stated in their admissions guidelines -

"We welcome the EPQ and would encourage applicants to take one as it will help to develop independent study and research skills valuable for higher education.

We recognise that not all students have equal access to them, so the completion of the EPQ won’t normally be a requirement of any offer made.'

Thank you. That’s interesting about the UCAS points for EPQ.

For comparison, an A grade at advanced higher is worth 56 UCAS pts. The A grade is split into A1 and A2. An A1 is typically over 85% and there is no differentiation in UCAS pts between A1 and A2 grades bizarrely.

Cambridge require A1 A1 and A2 at advanced higher level which is a bit harsh. Only 645 students in Scotland achieved three As at advanced highers last year as many schools don’t offer them. Very few would have achieved A1 A1 and A2. This makes it even harder to achieve an offer for those north of the border.

That does sound tricky Aurea. I'd heard Oxbridge were on a drive to admit students from Scotland and under-represented areas such as the NE. Doesn't seem like it's working, whatever they're doing? But I guess if many schools don't offer the Advanced Highers, as you say, what can Oxbridge realistically do if so few students are even in a position to apply? Why don't all schools in Scotland offer the Advanced Highers?

Advanced highers are not the norm for entry to a Scottish university. Highers are the main Scottish qualifications for entry to university. An A grade at higher is 33 UCAS pts for comparison but able students take five of them in one sitting. Our school offers a selection of 15 advanced highers but some schools don't have the uptake to offer more than an handful. For example, my elder DS was in an RE advanced higher class with only 4 students a couple of years ago so he was very lucky it ran. Some students will travel between schools (if logistically possible) to pick up subjects their own school doesn’t offer.

There are only about 150 pupils in each year group in our school. NB there are no sixth forms in Scotland. Some of the more remote schools may only have 50 pupils per year group so the schools prefer to put all their resources into highers which is the main Scottish qualification for entry into university. That's why some students will be 16 turning 17 when they go to uni in Scotland and the Scottish degrees are four years, rather than three. There is one year less schooling in total in Scotland as they start school six months later than in England and finish six months earlier (when many students are under 18). The additional year at uni makes up for this shortfall. Some English students will gain entry to second year at a Scottish uni for this reason.

Hope this makes sense as it's as clear as mud. 🤣

Thanks for explaining Aurea - I had no idea about how different the system is. Also, only 645 in the whole of Scotland attaining three As at AH level does sound very low? I'm surprised about that. If I think of the year group of about 200 my DC was in, probably at least 50 of them would get the equivalent of the the AH A grade (three A*). And that's just one single school!

But maybe it's because uni is free in Scotland so most don't bother with AH to enable them to apply elsewhere?

Anyway, sounds like your DS is in a good position and doing all he can, so fingers crossed for him.

@FriendlyLaundryMonster your DS sounds like he has a lot on, but my DS1 (at o for maths) says he reckons the best advice for Oxford is to practise, practise, practise past papers for the MAT. High score in the MAT means you're almost guaranteed an interview. O interviews for maths are 100% about maths (just being led through problems and showing the interviewers how you tackle them and how you take on board new information - whether they think you're teachable basically). Pretty rare that anything other than maths comes up, although good to have something prepared about your other interests/wider stuff just in case you get a wild card interviewer. But basically - focus on MAT.

The Cambridge maths process (over-offering in January of Y13 and then weeding people out using very hard STEP exams at end of y13) is quite brutal and leads to lots of offers getting withdrawn at the very last moment which is nasty for the kids involved. Don't know whether compsci at Cambridge requires STEP though.

www.cst.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/faqs

Computer Science requires TMUA, rather than STEP, and some colleges require CSAT.

@PacificState is correct @FriendlyLaundryMonster . There is a cut off score for MAT above which everyone is automatically interviewed and this information us available on the Merton College website under admissions feedback. DS aimed to consistently get over 70% in past papers and in the real thing ended up with 81%.
He's a second year now, he had 3 face to face interviews and was only asked one question that was not a Maths problem . It was 'why are you doing x (his 4th A level, a non Science) . His sparkling answer was 'good to do something that involves a bit of writing 😆

@andshesoff: "EPQ is worth 28 UCAS points (I think they have to basically get full marks or just one or two marks off that to get the A EPQ). So if you get an A EPQ it's equivalent to half an A* at A-level."

That's not completely true, although the UCAS points part is correct. EPQs are marked similarly to other subjects. You need around 90% for an A star and around 80ish for A but that depends on the grade boundaries as they do fluctuate year on year. The one I teach and assess is marked out of 100 so you need to be in band 3 for everything (8-10 marks) and aim for as many marks as possible for the A star grade. I have spent the last 3 weeks marking them. Almost of mine are in the 80 - 97% range. Nobody got 100, even after moderation.

I think it's a valuable qualification as it bridges the gap between spoon-feeding at GCSE and independent research at uni. The fantastic ones I have recently marked have detailed planning and evaluations, source analyses and academic referencing. I know that none of them are impossible for undergraduates to pick up, but being taught and helped through them in y12 in my case gives them a flying start at university. Yet again I have had a vast array of subjects from good deaths to nuclear fission to publishing recipe books.

I'm always happy to answer questions about the EPQ.

My DS is wavering on course choice too, in his case between maths and music. It does NOT help that he couldn't go to the Oxford maths open day last weekend so is trying to get to some of it tomorrow, at the same time as the organ open day ... I pointed out to him that if he is starting to think more towards music the maths open days are possibly more important, to help with decision making ....

I too am hoping that open days will help make it feel more real, and that reality will make the choices make more sense. (I think they should) And he'll have to make a moderately firm decision this term I think as the organ scholarship applications go in on Sep 1st before school goes back.

@Malbecfan My ds is just finishing an initial draft of his EPQ. He' doing an artefact one; any tips on this kind? He seems to think they haven't been marked so highly at his school previously, but what he wanted to investigate made it more sensible to do it this way. He's also not sure about the literary review (I think that's what he called it!) as it's an artefact and most examples of this seem to be for essay EPQs. I think he will work it out for himself, but any advice is welcome!

My son gets his epq marks (not grade) this week so that's useful to know @Malbecfan , thanks.

@FriendlyLaundryMonster artefacts seem to require a lot more work. For WJEC, they have to write 1500 words in their report for artefacts. One of mine has produced a recipe book aimed at families with a sufferer from a genetic condition. Her report has lots of the scientific information about the minerals and enzymes that help, along with how she actually put the book together. In short, the report details the research that has taken place in order for the artefact to be produced. He should also analyse the sources. I think the acronym is RAVEN: Reputation of the authors, Ability to observe, Vested interest, Expertise, Neutrality. Your DS should look at each source and examine all 5 components for each. So eg if he reads something from the journal Nature, it will have been peer-reviewed to be published, he should be able to find out something about the author(s) and why they wrote it - are they been funded by eg Big Pharma, are the authors experts and neutral?

One of mine this year did something about Trump's Presidency. Some of his sources are Fox News. His source analysis acknowledges that they are not neutral and have a vested interest, but for balance, he also used CNN.

I hope that makes sense. I have moved onto marking songs from year 8, just to prolong my marking pain.

@Cubangal we too are planning to release the marks this week...

@malbecfan we meet again..I've named changed but we were on the university students threads together.

That's a brave student who uses Fox News, I can imagine if they do it well it's worth some marks as many won't use it well if adults who treat it as gospel are anything to go by.

@Posie23 My DD also applying for English at Oxford from state 6th form. We were there for a poetry comp a few weeks ago and she'll be there again for an English taster day in a couple of weeks, she has totally fallen in love with the place. She's currently trying to narrow down college choices to make the open day visit simpler.

@DTJ Hi! Nice to ‘meet’ another English applicant parent! Is your DD looking at Cambridge as well or is she set on Oxford? We also need to look at narrowing down possible college choices, but DD is heads down in revision for L6 exams at the moment so that’s taking priority over everything else!

Interesting that EPQ seems to happen much later at DD’s school than some of you - it doesn’t kick off until June here!

Having an afternoon browsing application statistics for all possible universities DS might apply to. I think it’s great how open Oxford is and the wealth of information that they provide that is incredibly easy to find. It’s just such a shame that other unis aren’t so open and forthcoming.