Why are Scottish degrees 4 years long?

[zagara]

Apologies if this is a naive question, but is it always the case that degrees taken in Scottish unis are 4 years long because the first year is a kind of ‘general year?’

If applying from outside Scotland, is it sometimes possible to miss that first year? Just started thinking about unis for DD and much as she likes the look of St Andrews, 4 years U.K. there may be a bit of a push? She wouldn’t mind a 4-year degree if one year was a year abroad or placement year, but it seems 4-years is standard in Scotland (no year abroad included or placement)? Or have I missed something here? Thanks!

Fourth year is honours. You can leave after 3rd year.

Because Scottish school finishes one year earlier than English school. Many Scots go off to university at 17 and Scottish Highers give a broader, but less in-depth education to an older age. So if you've done an A level in your degree subject you're likely to find your first year at a Scottish university pretty easy, as you may have done much of the work before, but I don't think you can miss the first year. I certainly didn't and I didn't know of any other English students doing so. From a social POV it would be a disadvantage anyway, because in first year you tend to be halls or a shared flat, where you get to know people to share with in subsequent years. If you just jumped in at 2nd year level (supposing you could do that and I'm not sure it's possible), you'd miss out on that relatively easy and social first year of getting to know people.

I see, thank you. So the first year, is like ‘A-level standard’ but broader options?

No it is not a "general year". Scotland has a different education and exam system. Scottish students can go to university a year younger than in England with just Highers, though most stay on at school until they are 18 and take one or more Advanced Highers. The max fees are 6K per year not 9K per year to make up for the 4 years instead of 3.

It is possible to go straight into Year 2 with A levels (check entry requirements) but tbh I wouldn't recommend it. Year 2 is often a high-pressure year; my own (Scottish, not St Andrews) university and covers the "university study skills" and gives students a common background in the subject during year 1 that is assumed later; she wont have her social circle sorted out. Direct entry to Year 2 is possible but means more stress less fun.

Yes you can start in second year if you have A levels but you will miss a lot of the meeting people and making friends in first year - had a mate from Newcastle who started in first year

Yes can see how it would be problematic (socially) starting in the second year.

Thanks for info on lower fees - I hadn’t realised that.

I should say, direct year 2 entry may be possible from A levels but it's not always offered. And even Scottish students who stay on and get Advanced Highers at 18 (which are more specialist than A level, students who take Advanced Highers typically take 1 or 2 in their final year of school) at 18 don't usually go straight into year 2 either, at least not in the subjects and universities I know about.

As a pp said it's not a general year but it does offer a lot of options and many students start off on one programme and move to another because of a subject picked up in first year (normally within the same faculty).

Many Scottish students go after 6th year with a mix of higher and advanced higher, advanced highers have a higher tariff than A levels but many still elect to join first year even though some courses will allow advanced entry to second year with advanced higher (or A levels).

Some universities charge 3 out of 4 years for English students but not all, you'd need to look up the funding for each university to find out. Re the year abroad - this is also widely available, I know loads of students that have taken a year abroad when attending a Scottish University.

The first year isn't a general or easy year.

Courses are 4 years long because you come out with a Masters degree at the end. It is possible to finish at end of 3rd year with a Bachelor degree, but most are automatically set up so that you graduate end of 4th year with a Masters.

Missing first year and starting at second year means you'll miss out on the teaching and credits from that year.

It was also acknowledged when I was at uni that A levels and Highers were on a par. And if you did a Certificate of Sixth Year Studies, that was somewhere between A levels/highers and 1st year uni level work. But CSYS weren't really standard, no idea if they still exist!

Second year entry is becoming more common in Scotland. At least 2 of DDs friendship group did this. They still joined in freshers events. Had to work harder than if they went into first year but not a bad thing. Second year entry not offered for all subjects. DD who started in first year has enjoyed the flexibility to study widely and pick up subjects not studied at school. Has good AHs but was still stretched in first year in the the two subjects she did at school (Edinburgh, Social Science)

CSYS has been replaced by Advanced Higher

I was educated in England til 18 and then went to uni in Scotland, and my first year certainly was easy. I felt like I'd gone back to pre-A level level.

It was valuable though. I applied not for a subject but just to a particular faculty, and did five subjects within that faculty in first year, with a view to which ones I wanted to carry on with. That year made me realise I wasn't good at and/or interested enough in some of the ones I'd intended to do; but I was able to change tack for my second year and specialise more in those that I realised I WAS good at and interested enough in to carry them on.
DISCLAIMER this was in the 90s; don't know how similar it all is now.

You can leave after 3rd year with a Pass degree or stay on in 4th year to get an Honours degree.

@BrinksmansEntry is correct that you can get a masters in 4 years (or a bachelors in 3) but you need to enter directly into 2nd year to do this. Also watch although the ancients offer MA degrees in 4 years these are not masters degrees ie still undergraduate.

@BrinksmansEntry

The first year isn't a general or easy year.

Courses are 4 years long because you come out with a Masters degree at the end. It is possible to finish at end of 3rd year with a Bachelor degree, but most are automatically set up so that you graduate end of 4th year with a Masters.

Missing first year and starting at second year means you'll miss out on the teaching and credits from that year.

It was also acknowledged when I was at uni that A levels and Highers were on a par. And if you did a Certificate of Sixth Year Studies, that was somewhere between A levels/highers and 1st year uni level work. But CSYS weren't really standard, no idea if they still exist!

You dont get a Masters after 4th year you get an Honours degree rather than a Pass degree that you'd get after 3 years

[quote SandyIrvine]@BrinksmansEntry is correct that you can get a masters in 4 years (or a bachelors in 3) but you need to enter directly into 2nd year to do this. Also watch although the ancients offer MA degrees in 4 years these are not masters degrees ie still undergraduate.[/quote]
No you don't get a Masters after 4 years. I went to Uni in the 90s and you get an Honours degree in 4 years.

Bit puzzled looking at at my Masters degree, obtained after 4yrs... remembering the uni friends who left after 3yrs with their Bachelor degree.

Oh well. I'm not that invested in the thread. Crack on. I'm sure OP child will enjoy their easy pre-A level first year at good old jolly Standrews.

Maybe it depends on the subject then as I came out after 4 years with a Bsc with 2nd class honours. I would have had to stay on longer than 4 years to get a Masters degree

Direct entry to second year is possible for some stem subjects depending on A level/ advanced higher grades. My dd is a Scottiah student and decided to do direct 2nd year entry for maths at ST A. This was absolutely the right decision for her as she was clear maths was all she wanted to study. She had to hit the ground running academically but has thrived. She has not missed out at all socially and has a wide circle of friends.
Be aware though that this route limits your module options. There is no scope to change. Whereas 1st year entry allows students to take modules outwith their apllied for subject and some students for honours change course completely.
Dd will still spend 4 years at uni as has chosrn the integrated Mmath course.
Basically like everything there are pros and cons and it totally depends on the individual student.

Sorry for all the typos didn't have my specs on!

It may vary but our MEng programme is 5 years not 4. BSc is 3, Hons is 4. Yes year 1 should be relatively easy but why make life hard for yourself? OP's DC wont be bored, if it's easy there's plenty of academic enrichment activities to be getting on with as well as non-academic fun.

The difference is in A Levels being a 2 year course. That’s why many Scots do Advanced Highers - these are the equivalent of A Levels and essential if you want to attend the top unis.

Others have explained the structure of Scottish degrees so I won't repeat what they have said.

Just wanted to add that it's often possible to do one of the 4 years abroad. Both my children had that opportunity. I seem to remember that for one of them it was a competitive entry situation though.

The max fees are 6K per year not 9K per year to make up for the 4 years instead of 3.

I think that varies from uni to uni.

Glasgow used to charge £6750 for all 4 years but now charges £9250 for 3 of the 4 years (if you enter in Yr 2 you still pay all 3 years).

Edinburgh fees are £9250 per year and I’m not sure that you only pay for 3 of the 4 years. Heriot-Watt states that fees are £9250 per year for a BA/BSc/MA honours degree.

I'm sorry for the incorrect information, I got confused by the different fees for Scottish students (paid for and therefore set by the govt) and other UK students.