Why are Scottish degrees 4 years long?

[zagara]

Apologies if this is a naive question, but is it always the case that degrees taken in Scottish unis are 4 years long because the first year is a kind of ‘general year?’

If applying from outside Scotland, is it sometimes possible to miss that first year? Just started thinking about unis for DD and much as she likes the look of St Andrews, 4 years U.K. there may be a bit of a push? She wouldn’t mind a 4-year degree if one year was a year abroad or placement year, but it seems 4-years is standard in Scotland (no year abroad included or placement)? Or have I missed something here? Thanks!

You can usually spend a year abroad (usually third year of four year degree). Choice is restricted and its competitive to get a place. At DDs uni you need to apply in semester 1 of second year so they go by first year results which many didn't realise until it was too late (and they had just scraped passes thinking first year didn't count for anything).

I think you'll find that Advanced Highers are given more UCAS tariff points than A levels as they are regarded as slightly more chellenging

doh challenging

@readsalotgirl63

I think you'll find that Advanced Highers are given more UCAS tariff points than A levels as they are regarded as slightly more chellenging

That used to be the case.

A* at A level and A at AH are now both 56 UCAS points.

Posted from Edinburgh Uni website:

Like other Scottish universities, many of our undergraduate degrees are named 'masters'.

This is unlike elsewhere in the UK, where first degrees are generally 'bachelor' degrees.

Most arts, humanities and social science degrees at Edinburgh are awarded as MA (Hons). This is a conventional undergraduate degree, not equivalent to a postgraduate masters.

Arts degrees studied at Edinburgh College of Art are mostly BA (Hons). They are equivalent to Edinburgh undergraduate degrees named MA - the difference in name is historical.

In science and engineering subjects there is often the choice of a BSc or an integrated masters degree such as MPhys, MChem or MEng. These programmes entail a further year of in-depth study at masters level.

Just to clarify things!

@readsalotgirl63

I think you'll find that Advanced Highers are given more UCAS tariff points than A levels as they are regarded as slightly more chellenging

Not any more.

The ancient universities (St Andrews, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen) give MA degrees in humanities for four years of study. This is a historical oddity, These are equivalent to an English BA or those awarded by other Scottish universities. It's similar to the Cambridge MA that is given to BA graduates after a number of years. In Science the 4 year degree is a Batchelors, eg a BSc or BEng. There may be undergraduate masters degrees in Science and Engineering - MChem, MMath, MEng, which take an additional year, so 5 in total, as opposed to 4 in the rest of the UK.
Leaving after three years will give an Ordinary degree; a BA(Ord) or BSc(Ord). Ordinary degrees are not classified, you don't get a 1st, 2.1 etc.
Direct entry to 2nd year is not uncommon for science and engineering. This is open to students with Advanced Highers, A-levels, IB, etc.
Years abroad are included in the normal duration of the programme, usually the third year is spent abroad.
The first and second years of Scottish degrees, particularly in the humanities, are intended to be broader and allow students to take courses in subjects outside their intended honours subject. Many students change programme as a result, as they find new areas that they are interested in. The US university system where majors are declared after one or two years of study was originally modelled on the Scottish system.

I went to uni in Scotland, did IB abroad and started in first year so it was still 3 years for my degree

I have Master of Arts (Hons) in Education from Aberdeen but it’s not actually a Masters degree, it’s just an undergrad the same as the people who did the 4 year BEd at Dundee or Stirling

Second year obvs, first year was called foundation when I did it - a long time ago!

Thank you for all the clarifications. I had heard that an MA from eg Edinburgh is actually a BA (ie undergrad degree) and it’s just a historical name anomaly.

I can definitely see the benefits of the first year if you’re not 100% sure what degree you want to do. Just wondering whether, if you’re going to do a 4-year degree, you may be better off somewhere like Bath where the third-year abroad or on a placement seems to be fairly standard? I guess it’s horses for courses though. Thanks for the info.

Depends on what degree you want to do?

For instance, Landscape Architecture at Edinburgh gives you the opportunity to spend 9 months abroad in Yr 3.

Environmental Geography at Stirling has opportunities to study in Yr 3 at Guelph in Canada.

Actuarial Science at Heriot Watt enables you to do an exchange year abroad.

You do need to trawl through the online info to look at opportunities to work / study abroad.

DD has been accepted at St Andrew’s, information given is £9,250 for every year.

@BrinksmansEntry

The first year isn't a general or easy year.

Courses are 4 years long because you come out with a Masters degree at the end. It is possible to finish at end of 3rd year with a Bachelor degree, but most are automatically set up so that you graduate end of 4th year with a Masters.

Missing first year and starting at second year means you'll miss out on the teaching and credits from that year.

It was also acknowledged when I was at uni that A levels and Highers were on a par. And if you did a Certificate of Sixth Year Studies, that was somewhere between A levels/highers and 1st year uni level work. But CSYS weren't really standard, no idea if they still exist!

No you don’t get a masters. It’s an honours degree

I went to Edinburgh University at age 17 (straight after Highers), so graduated at 21 - same as students in English universities.

My DD graduated from Edinburgh last year, having done A-levels. Her A-levels run out within a few weeks, so definitely did not give her an easy first year.

What felt good about the Scottish system for her is that there were basically 2 first years, so she got to do lots of different modules before honing in on her interests in 3rd year.

She got a MA(Hons) which she insists is superior to a BA(Hons), even though I keep telling her its not (I got a BSc(Hons)).

The fees are £9250. Some universities, eg Dundee, don't charge for the 4th year in some subjects.

A year abroad is possible if you study at a Scottish university.
It depends on the course you are studying and availability of suitable courses at an overseas university.
DD spent her 3rd year studying in the USA and had a great all round experience.

@Pinkginlover

A year abroad is possible if you study at a Scottish university. It depends on the course you are studying and availability of suitable courses at an overseas university. DD spent her 3rd year studying in the USA and had a great all round experience.

Junior Year Abroad works well between the USA and Scotland.

It's how I met my DH!

I think we also need to clear up the Ordinary/Honours thing - an Ordinary degree takes 3 years & if you do an Arts course you will still be an MA. The Honours degree takes 4 but whether you are allowed to go for it is decided for you by the faculty in 2nd year, you don't get to decide that for yourself. It is based on overall performance in the past 2 years, essay marks and exam results and if they think you will struggle to get an honours degree you will not be accepted on to the course. Of course you don't have to do an Honours degree even if you are accepted, you can still choose to do an Ordinary and be done in three! Uni is about so much more than the final degree though...

Yes DS has applied for second year entry for St Andrews Maths. Many English students do

Apologies I was comparing an A at A Level with an A at Advanced Higher - where the A at Advanced Higher does score higher in terms of UCAS tariff points.

It is perfectly possible to study abroad for a year ( usually 3rd year) while attending a Scottish university - depends on the course and the university. DD did think she would want to do this but decided against it as it impacted on subsequent module choice but several of her friends did go abroad.

Also you get all the benefits of 1st year entry if you apply in 2nd year. It’s not a masters degree. So much incorrect info given on this thread

@Darbs76 I'm not sure what you mean ?

Its usually science faculty subjects/maths /computer science that offer direct entry to second year.
Humanities subjects don't tend to as their subjects curriculums are too varied at school level, ie. History very different in Scottish, American or Irish schools.
My DS didn't find first year very easy and he had 3 Advanced Highers at A. Its certainly not like a basic foundation year.
I don't know of any kids that went to uni after 5th year (realise this may be different in other areas) staying for 6th year is the norm now unless you are going to FE college or to an apprenticeship or job.

I think @Darbs76 is perhaps meaning that you still get to be a "fresher" and stay in halls if you choose direct entry.
The 4 Ancient universities do award 4 year MA degrees but everybody involved knows they are "Scottish MAs" and not the same as an integrated Masters or PG Masters.

Anyway i think the question should be why are English degrees only three years long when most other countries are four?