Why are Scottish degrees 4 years long?

[zagara]

Apologies if this is a naive question, but is it always the case that degrees taken in Scottish unis are 4 years long because the first year is a kind of ‘general year?’

If applying from outside Scotland, is it sometimes possible to miss that first year? Just started thinking about unis for DD and much as she likes the look of St Andrews, 4 years U.K. there may be a bit of a push? She wouldn’t mind a 4-year degree if one year was a year abroad or placement year, but it seems 4-years is standard in Scotland (no year abroad included or placement)? Or have I missed something here? Thanks!

I would be cautious about "first year doesn't count". When I was at uni (many years ago) entry to Hons was based on performance over years 1and 2.

More recently dd was told that admission to postgrad was based on performance in all 4 years of the undergrad - so year 1 most definitely counted.

Maybe it will come back and bite him on the bum then

Edinburgh fees are £9250 per year

Only for English students. Scottish and current EU students get the £1800 fee paid and international students pay much more.

@RampantIvy Absolutely

I hope it does @readsalotgirl63. He is an arrogant, lying, cheating arsehole.

I am English but went to Uni in Scotland. This was in the 90s so things might have changed a bit. I loved having 4 years of uni. Why rush to join the rat race? I did find first year relatively easy after A-levels but loved the flexibility of studying 3 subjects. I then picked two of those again for second year with a third new subject. I then did two of those subjects for join honours in years 3 and 4.

I came out of uni with a degree in two subjects I'd never even considered when I applied and a well rounded education in other subjects too. I would really recommend the flexibility of the Scottish system (assuming it still works that way) as you can discover subjects you never even thought of before.

@rampantivy - presumably why he's the "ex BF"

@Blubells

Edinburgh fees are £9250 per year

Only for English students. Scottish and current EU students get the £1800 fee paid and international students pay much more.

It’s a double edged sword though - Scottish student numbers are capped because of the much lower fees paid by the Scottish Government. Universities are businesses and need to get that fee income.

Indeed @readsalotgirl63

It’s a double-edged sword though - Scottish student numbers are capped because of the much lower fees paid by the Scottish Government. b are businesses and need to get that fee income.

Absolutely.

My DD's offer was reduced twice before firming. She was initially offered AAB, then it was ABB, and finally BBB.

They want English/Welsh/Irish students, as well as Rest of World.

I didn’t know offers could be reduced after they were made! How does that work? Do they just send you a new offer out of the blue?

I'm English and studied at Edinburgh. It was wonderful and the extra year was nothing but an advantage. I continued with the course I had applied for but many of my peers were able to switch degrees without going back a year. A few of my school classmates at English unis ended up going back into first year as they regretted their degree choice. This made them feel like they had failed in some way when really they just chose wrong. It was harder socially for them as they ended up going back to the beginning, whereas at Edinburgh you could easily change your degree after first or second year but continue with your cohort. The Scottish system was a great bonus for me. I'm not sure about the fee situation now though, when I was studying my fees were about £1800 per year compared to £3000 per year for a three year English course, so the total debt was not much higher. Sadly I think think an English student going to Edinburgh may now be taking on a great deal more debt.

@Stockpot

I didn’t know offers could be reduced after they were made! How does that work? Do they just send you a new offer out of the blue?

Yes, that's exactly what they do.

@BrinksmansEntry

The first year isn't a general or easy year.

Courses are 4 years long because you come out with a Masters degree at the end. It is possible to finish at end of 3rd year with a Bachelor degree, but most are automatically set up so that you graduate end of 4th year with a Masters.

Missing first year and starting at second year means you'll miss out on the teaching and credits from that year.

It was also acknowledged when I was at uni that A levels and Highers were on a par. And if you did a Certificate of Sixth Year Studies, that was somewhere between A levels/highers and 1st year uni level work. But CSYS weren't really standard, no idea if they still exist!

You don’t get a masters at the end, you get BA or BSc Hons in most cases. st Andrews is an anomaly though and you get and MA if you do a 4 yr arts degree.

As has been previously explained the ancient Scottish universities award M.A Hons degrees after 4 years of study or M.A (ordinary) degrees after 3 years. These are undergraduate degrees.

St. Andrews is only 1 of 4 Scottish universities - the others are Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen - all award M.A undergrad degrees.

Sorry that should have been to @Bobbins36 - St.Andrews is not an anomaly.

Sorry that should have said St.Andrews is only 1 of 4 which award undergrad M.A degrees but actually it's 1 of 5 as Dundee also award undergrad M.As.

@Bobbins36 I don't have a BA or BSc Hons though, I've got MA.

[quote BrinksmansEntry]@Bobbins36 I don't have a BA or BSc Hons though, I've got MA.[/quote]
You’ve got an undergrad MA, which is a quirk of the Scottish ancient universities. If you’d done an undergrad degree at Oxbridge you’d automatically be awarded an MA too.

It’s not equivalent to a post grad degree or to an integrated masters.

[quote BrinksmansEntry]@Bobbins36 I don't have a BA or BSc Hons though, I've got MA.[/quote]
It's the equivalent of a BA done at a different Scottish Uni as you've done an undergraduate course not a post graduate course

I don't think @brinksmansentry thinks her MA is a postgrad but is pointing out that having an MA as an undergrad degree from a Scottish university is not wildly unusual and not "an anomaly".
I suspect brinksman (like me) is a tad irritated by people applying to Scottish universities without bothering to investigate any of the history of the institution or the reasons why there are distinct differences which are to be celebrated.

Thanks @readsalotgirl63

I've got Masters, didn't do postgraduate. But if I'd graduated end of 3rd year I would have had a BA, I graduated end of 4th year with a Masters, having done a dissertation which others have mentioned a part of their Masters. But it is not a BA or BSc - not sure why people keep saying I have a BA when I don't. The majority of my friends who went to uni did 4yr degrees and awarded Masters at the end, they aren't anomalies.

The Scottish education system isn't just the English system with funny sounding differences. Or easier than the English system.

I did a dissertation in 4th year at Strathclyde Uni and got a BSc. Your Masters is the equivalent of my Bachelors degree; it just has a different name because of the Uni you went to. To get a postgraduate Masters degree I would have had to have stayed on and studied further

@BrinksmansEntry you have a Masters of Art/Science etc etc it’s the equivalent of a BA or Bsc just from an “old” university. You haven’t done actual masters level study if you didn’t do a postgrad

I'll consider myself downgraded then

Me and my degree are off to have a wee think on the naughty step as I tell it to stop getting ideas above its stations, and I tell myself that I didn't do actual masters level study.