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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Why are Scottish degrees 4 years long?

113 replies

zagara · 02/02/2022 10:48

Apologies if this is a naive question, but is it always the case that degrees taken in Scottish unis are 4 years long because the first year is a kind of ‘general year?’

If applying from outside Scotland, is it sometimes possible to miss that first year? Just started thinking about unis for DD and much as she likes the look of St Andrews, 4 years U.K. there may be a bit of a push? She wouldn’t mind a 4-year degree if one year was a year abroad or placement year, but it seems 4-years is standard in Scotland (no year abroad included or placement)? Or have I missed something here? Thanks!

OP posts:
readsalotgirl63 · 02/02/2022 17:48

Agree staying until 6th year is the norm now. When I was at school - looooong time ago it was much more common for youngsters to go to university after 5th year. Part of the reason I stayed on into 6th year was that I would only have been 17 in the October.

readsalotgirl63 · 02/02/2022 17:49

As it was I was a few days off my 18th when I did go to university

readsalotgirl63 · 02/02/2022 17:50

Thanks @Wbeezer re explanation of @Darbs76 - that makes sense

Wbeezer · 02/02/2022 17:52

DS2 was still only 17 in the December despite doing 6th Year. There's an exception to every rule though, at the
Open day we met a girl who had gone straight from 5th year and started uni aged only 16, theres no way DS2 would have done that despite having the grades.

Original poster
zagara · 02/02/2022 18:00

I had no idea that the was a such thing as as an ‘ordinary degree’ without honours. Is this only in Scotland? I thought all universities awarded either BA (hons) or BSc (hons) as standard. Well, now I know...

OP posts:
Mo1911 · 02/02/2022 18:01

@CraftyGin

I went to Edinburgh University at age 17 (straight after Highers), so graduated at 21 - same as students in English universities.

My DD graduated from Edinburgh last year, having done A-levels. Her A-levels run out within a few weeks, so definitely did not give her an easy first year.

What felt good about the Scottish system for her is that there were basically 2 first years, so she got to do lots of different modules before honing in on her interests in 3rd year.

She got a MA(Hons) which she insists is superior to a BA(Hons), even though I keep telling her its not (I got a BSc(Hons)).

The fees are £9250. Some universities, eg Dundee, don't charge for the 4th year in some subjects.

Think she's right actually. An MA is a Masters, a BSc is a Bachelor of Science. My son has a BSc and thought about going on to do a Masters but ended up landing a good job so that's on the back burner for now.

I am Scottish and some degrees in Scotland do have an optional year at the end for a Masters, friends of my sons did mechanical engineering and did their Masters as part of their degree. Most other degrees do require an additional year acceptance for which depends on your original degree classification.

museumum · 02/02/2022 18:04

Not read the whole thread but Scottish first year really is awesome. I can’t even count the number of people I know who ended up with a degree or a career in their rather random “third subject”. You are forced to pick something extra and it really opens eyes to subjects unheard of at school and an opportunity to broaden horizons and get a rounded education.

dementedpixie · 02/02/2022 18:06

@zagara

I had no idea that the was a such thing as as an ‘ordinary degree’ without honours. Is this only in Scotland? I thought all universities awarded either BA (hons) or BSc (hons) as standard. Well, now I know...
It was called a Pass degree when I was at Strathclyde Uni (the degree you got after 3 years) I stayed on for 4th year to get the Honours degree
Why are Scottish degrees 4 years long?
dementedpixie · 02/02/2022 18:08

@Wbeezer

DS2 was still only 17 in the December despite doing 6th Year. There's an exception to every rule though, at the Open day we met a girl who had gone straight from 5th year and started uni aged only 16, theres no way DS2 would have done that despite having the grades.
I went from 5th year and turned 17 in the November after starting. Several of my friends did it too but in those days (1990s) it was rarer to stay on for 6th year
TheAbbotOfUnreason · 02/02/2022 18:14

MA is not a Masters at the Ancient Scottish universities - same as a Cambridge MA is not a post grad degree. A masters degree (post grad) would be MLitt or MSc.

MEng is an integrated masters degree, so 5 years at a Scottish uni, but it’s still an undergrad degree.

SandyIrvine · 02/02/2022 18:27

Thank goodness for the flexibility of the Scottish MA. DD applied for one degree switched to another at the end of first year and will switch again to a joint degree at the end of second year.

KatyAnna · 02/02/2022 18:36

An Ordinary degree is really not taken by very many students in the Scottish system, though. It is students who do not pass their first two years sufficiently well to get into Honours or who have personal reasons for stopping at that stage.

Normally if you wanted to take a year abroad on exchange it would be in your third (junior honours) year.

My DD is at St Andrew’s. She did Advanced Highers and is loving her courses. It is not just repeating what she has already done.

You just need to remember that Scotland has a historically different education system.

By the way, I have an MA Hons and an MSc. Only one of these is a taught post-graduate degree!

CraftyGin · 02/02/2022 19:13

Two of my classmates got Ordinary degrees - one because they didn't do well enough in third year exams (although is extremely successful 35 years later, in the field) and another who changed degree courses to do medicine, which was always her first love.

CraftyGin · 02/02/2022 19:16

@readsalotgirl63

Agree staying until 6th year is the norm now. When I was at school - looooong time ago it was much more common for youngsters to go to university after 5th year. Part of the reason I stayed on into 6th year was that I would only have been 17 in the October.
I turned 18 in the January of first year.

I went after Highers because I was at a private school that was a real struggle for my parents. There is no way I could faff around at school for an extra year.

If I hadn't done that, I wouldn't have met DH, and not have had our 5 DCs...

readsalotgirl63 · 02/02/2022 20:19

I think that many many years ago there was an "ordinary" or "pass" degree in England which was only 2 years. I assume this has been lost through the standardisation of degrees. As indeed very few students will leave a Scottish university after 3 years nowadays - friend of mine didn't do well enough to be admitted to honours so graduated after 3rd year and went in to a postgrad course.

TheAbbotOfUnreason · 02/02/2022 21:18

One of my contemporaries at an English uni in the 1980s graduated with a pass (non honours) degree - he did all three years but failed the final year dissertation.

Chatwin · 02/02/2022 23:24

You just need to remember that Scotland has a historically different education system

It always amazes me how many people don't realise this, from university requirements to school holiday dates. In general I think Scottish education offers a lot more breadth and flexibility - at school and university level - than the English system appears to.

raspberryrippleicecream · 03/02/2022 00:41

Be vary careful OP, there is a lot of conflicting information and opinion posted on here, and a lot is incorrect.

My own personal experience. DS1 got an offer to Glasgow for second year entry for MPhys, I think it was one grade higher than a first year entry. He didn't accept it, but if he had gone he would actually have paid slightly less than he has for his four year MPhys in England, as the fees were pro ratad for the missing year.

TheAbbotOfUnreason · 03/02/2022 07:06

@raspberryrippleicecream

As I put in my previous post, Glasgow charges English students for 3 out of 4 years of a 4 year course or 4 out of 5 years for a 5 year course - for an integrated Masters its fees are £37k for the full 5 years and £27750 for entry into Yr 2.

Other unis will charge the full £9250 for each year, so entry into Yr 2 of a 5 year course means you pay £37k instead of £46250.

raspberryrippleicecream · 03/02/2022 07:28

@TheAbbotOfUnreason

As I said, I can only recount my personal experience, which was admittedly several years ago. I should perhaps have said that.

TheAbbotOfUnreason · 03/02/2022 07:34

My point is that English applicants need to check with individual institutions, because you can’t assume that the same fee model applies at every university.

MrsBrodie · 03/02/2022 07:37

From Glasgow Uni website
'At Glasgow (and the other three ancient universities in Scotland), an Honours level degree in the Arts is called a Master of Arts (MA) and an Honours level degree in the Social Sciences a Master of Arts (Social Sciences). These should not be confused with the Master of Arts offered by some universities in England, which refers to a postgraduate qualification.'

RampantIvy · 03/02/2022 07:42

DD's ex BF spent his first year partying and missing lectures and seminars because he found the work easy and unchallenging, and in his words "the first year doesn't count anyway"

He said that first years party all night and sleep all day, second years party all night and work during the day, third years sleep at night and work during the day and fourth years work all day and all night. He was a rather arrogant young man.

MrsBrodie · 03/02/2022 07:44

You should also be aware that with some unis, you proceed to the two-years Honour course after your second year of study. At other unis, you used to do your degree in three years and then a one year Honours course - is this still the case?

Whattochoosenow · 03/02/2022 08:00

First year is more general as you have your core subject then additional ones. My friend went in to do a biology degree and came out with an honours in chemistry.
Regarding the free fees , our delightful Scottish government feels it is appropriate to pay around £1700 per Scottish student per year. As a result more overseas students have to be taken on to make up the shortfall and for some courses places for Scottish students have been limited.