Medicine 2023 Entry

[opoponax]

Hi all,

I don't think there is a Medicine 2023 Entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get one started.

Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice from those who understand the UK Medical School application process.

Yes, universities can see from the UCAS application how many previous applications the student has submitted (I was discussing this with the person in charge of my university's admissions less than 2 hours ago). We can only see details of previous applications (institutions and courses) if they applied to our institution. So they wouldn't know it's your second application for medicine, specifically.
The point with QUB is that they will know you're applying through UCAS for the second time (if they want to look) and they will know you didn't apply to them previously.
The number of students from Northern Ireland we have among our firm offer-holders for 2022 suggests to me that QUB has been particularly hard to get an offer from this year. No idea what it'll be like for 2023. Ulster, of course, is graduate-entry, so it hasn't expanded opportunities for NI school-leavers.
Any arguments about predicted grades are between your daughter and her school. Universities - mistakenly, in my opinion - work on the assumption that schools base predictions on a rigorous assessment of best-case probable outcomes, so those that use predicted grades will say if the school doesn't predict the required grades there is very little likelihood that you'll achieve them.

Universities - mistakenly, in my opinion - work on the assumption that schools base predictions on a rigorous assessment of best-case probable outcomes

Which is perhaps more likely in the independent sector as we found with TAGs.

The school simply won’t budge on the grades yet acknowledged she is likely to get AAA. If I truly didn’t think she would get it I would be most definitely advising her to look elsewhere. They even have what they term her challenge grades as higher than aaa. But we have tried so so hard already- asking for another opportunity to sit exams and to look at evidence. But they won’t move the ucas ones up. They just won’t.

It seems so unfair as other applicants are probably achieving the same as my dd this year yet just have more generous predicted grades. The school is a state school and managed to get 47 into medicine this year which is incredible. We have to live with it, work with it. But I just wondered how QUB might know how she had applied for medicine previously. Clearly they just do. And the universities think this is what she can achieve- she will show them in a year’s time!!!

@Thethingswedoforlove that is just stupid of the school (especially silly if they can get that many medicine places this year, which has been hideous with so many fewer offers - how many in the 6th form !).
I'd write a letter to the governors asking for an explanation as to why they seem determined to deny your DD the chance to succeed. No school should do this if they believe a student is capable of getting the grades needed.
We never underestimate grades,will always predict the aspirational ones, as we know that Unis will often let students in with a dropped grade, but don't offer for lower grades.
Don't let it go ! Its worth the fight so she can apply where she wants.

PS if you have it in writing that school think she can get AAA then send that to head and governors too.

Thanks @mumsneedwine . There are about 240 in the sixth form. It is a highly selective grammar. So the bar is ridiculously high. Not sure if I could argue that I have it in writing that she can achieve aaa though they have said it orally and they have put her challenge grades as higher than aaa. Which presumably means they think aaa is definitely achievable! She just didn’t work hard enough for her end of years. She was working too many hours in the care home and didn’t push on through the tiredness when she came home. But she has quit that now and is working ferociously for ucat and also past papers galore….. I just hope she doesn’t burn out

@Thethingswedoforlove brilliant, so school report says she can achieve more than AAA. Write to head asking for an explanation as to why her UCAS grades are not the ones the school thinks she can achieve, even on a good day. Be a real PIA if need be !

And to get almost 1/2 the year group(I assume 240 is across both years !) medicine places is incredible, selective or not ! Cannot understand why they'd not want another bumper year next year ??
Point out that, with their amazing teaching your DD can achieve those grades, and has learned her lesson about prioritising school work. Really emphasis how much time she was using for care home, in order to enhance her application. Sucking up normally helps !

It’s 240 per year group actually - sixth form is much bigger Than the rest of the school. Thank you for your encouragement. I guess maybe I’m too compliant as we have already tried so so hard to get them to budge by offering to sit more tests and not just bt saying we think she is amazing

@Thethingswedoforlove normally I'd say let it go, but this is far too important. Predicted grades are one of those hurdles to getting an interview.
I'd suggest a firm but friendly approach, stating how hard DD works, how the school have an amazing track record of success and she will do everything in her power to succeed. How she knows she got year 12 exams wrong but has learned a valuable life lesson which she should not be penalised for.
How school have predicted possible grades of AAA so they must think she can make them. Normally this fight is only needed at schools with little medicine success, but yours should really know how to play the game.

@Thethingswedoforlove you could also quote from the UCAS link I sent you. Make it clear (nicely) that you have done your research on Admissions scoring and if she does not get interviews due to low predictions but gets AAA on results day, the school policy would have denied her the chance to get into medical school in 2023. If she gets a great UCAT score your case will be strengthened.

Wondering if we should wait til she gets her ucat score and then go in all guns blazing at the beginning of term (last day tomorrow?). She will have worked her socks off over the holidays and could sit more exams etc in early September ? Thanks for the link @Monkey2001 i really wasn’t aware

Yes, I would leave it until the start of next term, nobody is going to deal with it now. Take time to compose a really good email and don't send it until you are happy that it states your case clearly and strongly.

Where best to apply with poor UCat of 2350 😞please? Predicted 3 A * at Alevel and 10 9s GCSE.
Wondering whether year out and try UCAT again or apply anyway-? Cardiff/ QUB /Aston.
Any advise appreciated .

I'd wait and see where that ukcat score ranks when everyone has done theirs. What was the SJ score?

Keele and Sunderland have low UCAT threshold if you can impress them on the R&R form - although Keele are now offering on A* AA. Do any of the BMAT universities appeal? Could do some prep for that over the summer and include a couple of those.

Thanks all. SJT 3 so not great either!

@Ame45 sorry to hear the UCAT went badly.

In years gone by Exeter might have been OK, but I think the UCAT options are all unsafe this year with 2350 B3. If you Google "Keele A100 Roles and Responsibilities form" she can take a view on how strong that side of her application is. They want lots of evidence of going "above and beyond" in jobs and voluntary roles, but they say they might use UCAT and the process for 2023 entry is under review (they were inundated for 2022 entry and they probably want an easier way to Whittier down the numbers). Cardiff is a possibility, but they shortlist on PS (because so many applicants have all 8/9 in GCSEs) and are not transparent.

If she really would have got all 9s at GCSEs in exams I would be focusing on BMAT now as it is much more like GCSEs than UCAT. There are lots of past papers on the BMAT website, get her to do one ASAP so she can see whether it suits her better than UCAT. A couple of words of caution - it is the time pressure which makes these exams hard rather than the content, and the grade boundaries moved up over the years, it is easier to get a high grade in the older papers. 2 out of Leeds/BSMS/Lancaster plus one Oxbridge and one of UCL/Imperial is where I would advise, but with a back up of gap year if necessary. UCL look at PS closely, the other BMAT ones don't really.

No need to do a BMAT course, but do lots of past papers (from the BMAT website) under time pressure and go through the required knowledge on the BMAT website. DS1 found BMAT easy as his GCSE knowledge was strong. He got a very high mark with less than a week of preparation.

There is quite a disconnect between your DC's academics and their UCAT - which suggests that not enough UCAT preparation was done! With those grades, and with adequate preparation, a UCAT score of at least 20% higher would be expected.

I've heard of several kids getting Oxbridge offers after bombing the UCAT so it's definitely worth focussing on the BMAT and BMAT unis now.

I would agree with other posters who suggest focussing on the BMAT now. Work through all the past papers, taking the first few slowly and really getting a feel for the questions noting any areas which need further knowledge/revision (eg physics questions if not doing physics A level so have forgotten GCSE context in my dd's case). Then doing them timed as the big issue is time pressure. Also looking very carefully at the questions which aren't correct rather than just looking at the mark and moving on. good luck.

Thanks for all the replies. On to BMAT she goes then. The essay question looks a bit tricky. !

Can I ask how quickly you would expect to see an improvement in UCAT score when studying? DD has hers booked in a little over 2 weeks. She's doing Medify for 2 hours per day and then does a mock test once per week. Her score is stuck at 2400 since starting 3 weeks ago. I've heard that often the score from the actual test is lower than any practise one. She's feeling a bit disheartened that there's no visible improvement in her score.

@Ame45 BMAT is the definitely the best idea for this year. I've had many students not do well on UCAT and go on to get several offers from BMAT Unis. So keep going.
@DTJ it's hard to say I'm afraid. Some people find scores go up after several weeks of practise, others have little change. Speed is the key - answer, flag if unsure and move on. Answer as many questions as possible. Work on the area you are weakest in (to me the AR is impossible !). If it's any help my DD got over 200 higher in the real thing than any practice !
UCAT is not easy (suppose that's the point).

@DTJ it is not just about hours, but how you use them. There are tutorials and YouTube videos (lots of people recommend KharmaMedic). DS2 started off with about 2 hours a day focusing on one of the areas each day. He found QR and DM easy, so after the first couple of weeks he did VR/AR one day and a mock the next day. AR is the one which can "click" once you have your list of position, shape, number etc sorted.

Technique is really important - managing time and spotting when you should guess and move on. Most neglect SJT, which is not wise as it can make a difference.

If she isn't up to 2600 after sitting technique I would delay it.