Medicine 2023 Entry

[opoponax]

Hi all,

I don't think there is a Medicine 2023 Entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get one started.

Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice from those who understand the UK Medical School application process.

@Lottsbiffandsmudge , dd was dead set on Cambridge originally as well, and we are going tomorrow just in case, but she doesn't seem to like the look of the course. It will be interesting to see what she thinks after the open day!

There are also some other universities that favours local candidates. I think this was stated in their admission pages. What do you think about Plymouth? A friend suggested it after visiting.

Cambridge is not necessarily harder to get into, just different! Every year there are people on the student room with offers from Oxbridge but rejections from their other choices. My son mucked up his interviews at Cambridge, I can only assume he underperformed because he was really nervous as he had a ridiculously high BMAT and achieved grades second time round.

Some people have very good stats and don't need to be strategic. If UCAT is below 2850 it would be unwise to apply to Edinburgh, Bristol or Newcastle. Nottingham unwise without a Band 1 SJT, if you don't have loads of work experience and volunteering Keele and Sunderland are unlikely to interview you.

As long as your DC know the risks they are taking, it is up to them to choose. As a parent, if you have passed on all the knowledge you have found, they can't blame you if they don't get interviews!

Hello just jumping on this thread quickly my daughter is a fifth year medic at Cardiff - out of her house of four only only one is from Wales - so there are certainly lots of students from the rest of the UK there!

@trader21c it has changed a lot in the last 2 years. Now v few non Welsh candidates are getting interviews, even with perfect results. I see why Cardiff are doing this, just wish they'd been more open so students could have applied elsewhere.

@trader21c I think it is because in the last few years so many people got 27 points for achieved grades.

In 2019 the cut off was 26/27, so almost everyone with 27 points got an interview. From 2020 applicants from England had 8/9 grades from 2018 which were treated by most medical schools as equivalent to A. There were around twice as many 8/9 as A, so all non contextual interviewees had 27 and they had to use PS as a tie break. As Welsh applicants still had As, which are harder to get, they needed to be treated more generously. There was one year when Cardiff treated 8s and 9s differently, but they treated them all as As, which meant they had to use the PS to shortlist, which is subjective.

If you have a UCAT over 2900 (and enough 7/8/9s) you can be confident of interviews at Bristol, Newcastle, Sheffield, Manchester, St Andrews, Southampton......) but for Cardiff there is an element of subjectivity, it is therefore a risky choice.

All my A*s have changed to bold markings, but you know what I mean!

Well, we went to Cambridge today and dd seems to have changed her mind again! She now does want to apply!

She hated it at first - the medic who we spoke to first in the Student Services building was not really selling it to her at all. She was quite snooty about other universities and seemed to think that only Cambridge was any good at producing good doctors. She was also incredibly sniffy and dismissive about GPs, though she grudgingly conceded that Cambridge was now trying to turn out more GPs than they did previously. DD doesn't necessarily want to be a GP but she didn't like the attitude at all. It all came across as very cold and not patient-centred at all.

We came away from the stand with the view that Cambridge definitely wouldn't be the right place for dd, so we decided that we would just relax and enjoy ourselves for the rest of the day. I wanted to go and have a wander around my old college, so off we went and then we actually just happened to end up talking to the DoS of medicine at that college, who was the polar opposite of the woman we had met on the main stand. Really lovely and saying all the stuff that was totally aligned with dd's own interests and values, so she was left feeling rather confused!! We subsequently talked to a few med students at various colleges, and they were fab - really honest about the pros and cons of the Cambridge course. The upshot was that she loved it, so now has some difficult choices to make!!

Oo that's interesting @Anothernamechangeplease we couldn't stay for the DoS (at Ciaus?) and we didn't bother with the medicine stand (we imagined 2 people behind a desk and a massive queue!) as time was tight. So it's good to hear the DoS was good. The 3rd year medic who showed us round 1st year accom at Ciaus was good and v positive too.
DS2 still wants to apply. He likes the idea of the uni based first 3 years..and the fact you can do any intercalated course! I am a bit more dubious about the lack of placements. Its got to be his choice. Birmingham is similar too.
It was a shame there was not more colleges offering DoS for a chat...

No, not Caius, but a different college. It was well worth talking to him.

DD was concerned about the lack of early clinical experience in the first three years, as she feels that this will help her to stay motivated. However, one of the lovely students we spoke to told us about how he had organised his own experience during holiday periods, so that reassured her a bit.

Ah OK. Which colleges were offering want wasn't really easy to find!
Good idea re work exp in (very long) holidays...

What not want

Good idea re work exp in (very long) holidays...

Yes, what the student said was that he had found it quite difficult to organise work experience opportunities when he was applying for medicine as a sixth former, but he had found it really easy after starting his degree. Apparently, putting "I'm a Cambridge medical student" at the start of his emails seemed to make all the difference!!

The medic who we spoke to on the main university stand was very focused on the academic strengths of the Cambridge degree, which are a significant attraction for dd. She loves the science and wants to be stretched, and she also wants to be in a place where there is a lot of exciting research going on. However, if it was only about the science, she would be going into biochemistry or biomedical sciences or something. The reason she has picked medicine is because she loves the idea of working with people. That didn't come across as being even remotely important to the first woman we spoke to, and dd felt that her values really wouldn't align. The DoS at my old college was all about the people, though. He was clear that students needed to be competent academically in order to succeed on the course, obviously, but he was also clear that the value of the scientific knowledge was in the power that it had to help people, and he talked a lot about the type of student and the values/personal qualities that they are looking for. Being very academic is an absolute prerequisite, of course, but it was evident that they look for much more than that. He was also very clear that they look to weed out students who are only applying for medicine because their parents think it's a good idea, of which there are apparently quite a few!!

@Anothernamechangeplease thanks all useful info. DS2 upstairs writing his first PS draft as I type! He too is keen on the academic rigour and has struggled to get clinical work exp up to now (has on line stuff). So this would be a good plan for him too.

There is a lot of parental pressure at DS2s school. A lot of those being pushed down the medicine route have not got the predicted grades they need tho. I guess unless it's your true passion the motivation might not be there... DS2 is totally self driven. I actually wish he wasn't doing medicine. The difficulty of getting in appears so intense. He would have a much easier time getting into a science or music degree and could have more of a pick of where he wants to go. But it's medicine he wants! We have no exp at all of medicine in our family so this whole process is a little bit daunting. Just trying to support with info and this thread is so helpful.

Just a little thing. Every medicine course will be academically rigorous - they all have to cover the same stuff otherwise the GMC wouldn't accredit them. Lots of research going on arlots of Unis too. Don't be blinded by the 'it's Oxbridge' line.
I'm only saying this so people apply to Oxbridge for the right reasons - they like that style of course. I would also add that if you get early patient contact within your course you can use your holidays as, well, holidays. You need a break as it's a tough, long course.
But if Cambs is your favourite then that's fab. It's v pretty and Addenbrooks serves v good coffee.

@Lottsbiffandsmudge I was you 9 years ago. Except for the pushy school bit - DD was at a massive 6th form college where it was a 'apply where you want' vibe

I absolutely agree that all courses will be academically rigorous, and this has been echoed by almost everyone we have spoken to, with the exception of that one loathsome Cambridge academic. However, we do feel that there has been a substantial difference at the various open days in terms of the degree of emphasis that institutions seem to put on the "science". And dd has come away feeling much more inspired by the places that have talked more about their research etc.

I agree that it's easy to get sucked in by the whole Oxbridge thing, and having studied at Cambridge myself, I'm very much aware that it is actually just one good university amongst many. I would have been perfectly content...perhaps even glad...if dd had chosen to apply elsewhere. And she still might. However, for dd, I think a part of it is that she wants that unique Oxbridge experience. She loves the history of the place, the quirky traditions, the whole vibe of the place. I can see why she thinks she wouldn't get that experience elsewhere.

A part of me feels just like you @Lottsbiffandsmudge - we have no experience of medicine and I worry that dd has taken such a hard route that I feel ill-equippedto support her with. At the same time, I can see that she's really committed to it, and that it's actually a really good fit for her for a multitude of different reasons. Thankfully, her school isn't remotely pushy, so I am confident that the drive is coming from dd and dd alone. So now I'm thinking that, as long as she goes into it with her eyes wide open and really understands what she's getting into, my job is just to support her along the way in whatever way I can.

It's not the school applying pressure really. But a lot of parents. Independent so many professionals wanting their 'moneys worth'.... some of the stories my kids tell me are frankly horrrendous. The school is very much about finding 'your thing' and for instance have been very supportive of DS1 perusing art at uni....I have had some very odd comments implying I have 'wasted my money' !!! At the end of the day I just want them to peruse what they love.
And sorry i wasn't trying to imply Cambs had more rigour (I know every course is tough) I think DS2 just wants to know as much as he can before being let loose on actual people...which I sort of get....

One thing that struck me in Cambridge yesterday was the prevalence of questions from prospective students about how to get into Cambridge, what they're looking for in candidates, what the interview process will be like etc. All totally fair enough, but I was somewhat gratified by the fact that dd's questions were all focused on the course and whether it was right for her. If she decides to apply, then that will be the time to start thinking about what they are looking for, but first, I want her to be clear about what she is looking for. Naturally, there is some overlap, as a large part of it comes back to whether values and attitudes align, but I was glad that dd was focused on getting the right course for her rather than just assuming that Oxbridge would be the best.

@Anothernamechangeplease @Lottsbiffandsmudge 😊 sounds like your DDs know what they want and are on the path to get it. It is a tough process requiring resilience and a sense of humour. And it's a tough course - 4th years tend to be 46 weeks on wards and studying,

What we have realised from the open days we have done is that, if early clinical experience is important to you, you really have to dig a bit deeper into what the institutions are saying to find out exactly what that involves and how much there will be. A couple of the places we visited that loudly proclaim that they have early clinical experience don't actually seem to offer much more in practice than Cambridge, which barely mentions anything at all. So you definitely need to do your research thoroughly to find what you actually want!

Whenever you go (pressed send too early). But if you enjoy it then it seems to be worth it. My DD is now a 5th year and doing all sorts of doctory things.

@Anothernamechangeplease that is v true. Sheffield offer loads from day 1, Bristol train you as an HCA, and UEA have lots of on ward teaching from 1st year. But at others it can just be a week here and there.

@Anothernamechangeplease just try not to let them throw their hearts into Cambridge - it is easy to get an interview, but hard to get an offer. DS1 was lost when he didn't get in, it is all harder because most of them are the top performers in their schools and are not used to being unsuccessful, second time round he had 6.8 and 7.0 in the first sections of the BMAT - he is REALLY good at science, but rubbish at interviews. The application process really draws you in and it becomes a love affair which is really tough if it doesn't work out. It is definitely worth looking at St Andrews if you want heavy science with a lot of traditions, old buildings, pretty places and a lot of very clever people across all subjects.

I am sure you know that Apparently, putting "I'm a Cambridge medical student" at the start of his emails seemed to make all the difference!! would be equally valid if you removed Cambridge from the sentence - in fact many hospitals would prefer medical students with more hands on experience.