Oxford aspirants part 5......the wait is over the results are in!!

[TangoWhiskyAlphaTango]

Thought I would start a new thread as its likely to fill up quick now.

So here we are after many months of applications, assessments and interviews. The wait is finally over for those with DC who have applied to Oxford. Those with Cambridge applicants have another 2 weeks to wait until the 25th Jan (bummer!!)

You have all been a lovely bunch to share this journey with and I wish your dc nothing but the BEST OF LUCK for tomorrow (and the 25th).

If there are 3 to 1 boys to girls, that suggests a boys school which admits girls in 6 form, Westminster or KCL at a guess? Interesting to see if there are the same trends from Cambridge next week...

@Oceanic995

At DDs highly academic London day school they received 20 offers. 15 went to girls despite the fact that boys outnumber girls 3:1. Apparently the atmosphere at school is now quite tense and toxic as some boys feel they are being overlooked because they don’t “tick any boxes”.

How many applied?

@HoneyMobster Thanks for that I knew there had been an increase and yes maybe due to their outreach programmes. Interestingly DD high school had a visit to Oxford on an outreach day and DD wasnt invited none of the dc that went applied.

The other interesting thing from that table @TangoWhiskyAlphaTango is the the number of applicants from independent schools has gone down over the same period. If you added in the international numbers as well you'd see growth from that group. So the changing distribution of offers is linked to where the applications are coming from.

How closely linked HoneyMobster?

The reason for any decline in applications to Oxbridge from indies is not because the US has somehow become more prestigious than it was a decade ago, but because the H06 at those indies know that the students in question now won't make the cut.

I don't know the answer to this but I would hazard a guess that success to US unis from indies which attract the DC of the very well off is chiefly at the less prestigious institutions. I doubt that Harvard and Princeton etc are suddenly handing out far ore places per top school than they were five to ten years ago. Happy to be proved wrong.

^m

I was talking about the increase in number of applications to Oxbridge from international students rather than an increase in applications to international universities from students educated in independent schools @goodbyestranger

Also the state school figures are distorted by the inclusion of state selective schools. Some of these super selective state schools will have very similar academic profiles to top indies.

@Sicilienne

Also the state school figures are distorted by the inclusion of state selective schools. Some of these super selective state schools will have very similar academic profiles to top indies.

Yes this is the kicker statistic - of those state school applications and places, how many are from the sorts of schools the vast majority of us are using for our DC? If it's a super selective grammar it's really not the same as your bog standard comp. When DS was at Cambridge he was in a real minority. Yet he had lots of friends from a small group of grammars - Tiffin, Southend (and private of course).

I don't know the answer to this but I would hazard a guess that success to US unis from indies which attract the DC of the very well off is chiefly at the less prestigious institutions. I doubt that Harvard and Princeton etc are suddenly handing out far ore places per top school than they were five to ten years ago. Happy to be proved wrong.

No idea how you would "prove this" but from observation I don't think you are correct. Five years ago about 30 in DDs year applied to the US, this year it is about 40. The mix has changed from those with US links to third country nationals and Brits attracted by Liberal Arts, sport, music and campus life. I don't think many thought it was worth the extra money unless you got into a top school. Otherwise you went to a good RG and either did a year abroad in the US or went for PG.

Eight in DDs year went to Harvard which was probably a high water mark. Apparently it was the best result of any school in the world including in the US. Others went to MIT, Yale, Stanford and so on. Some would have been strong Oxbridge applicants but not all. Different systems looking for different things. Scientists and medics tended to stay in the UK because our system is more specialised so you pick up technical skills earlier, then off to the US for PG. The very stand out mathematicians etc inevitably tended to end up in the US.

There has been a big rise in applications from non EU students since 2016. 4538 in 2016 to 6566 in 2020. I'd post the table but MN is being tricky.

That's for Oxford BTW.

Honey that is to be expected. Trump, then Covid, conspired to make overseas students feel insecure. Britain then became a more attractive alternative. There may be more applicants to Oxbridge but possibly an even bigger increase in London.

I was talking about the increase in number of applications to Oxbridge from international students rather than an increase in applications to international universities from students educated in independent schools @goodbyestranger**

Sure. But so often you get a parent of a DC at an expensive indie claiming that their DC isn't interested in Oxbridge, that they find the US has far more to offer (yes, such as the likelihood of an offer rather than the near certainty of a rejection!).

Don't forget that any child on the verge of something like a National Maths Challenge team might well be offered a sixth form scholarship/bursary at one of the more academic private schools. Less critical now when there are places like Kings znd Exeter Maths Schools but an useful option for those who are genuinely talented. A full ride at Harvard/MIT/Stanford/Caltech is then a logical next step.

I don’t think the Ivy League give scholarships anymore, just needs based bursaries.

A full ride is a rare beast. Also, very few full bursaries at independent sixth forms. It sounds good but the numbers aren't there to make it a main line thing.

goodbyestranger admissions are different. We know bright kids who ended up at Oxbridge because they did not receive and interesting US offers, and kids who got places at MIT, Harvard etc who would not have been strong Oxbridge applicants.

People often seem to look at Universities as if they are a hierarchy with Oxford placed above, say, LSE and below Harvard. There are lots of good Universities where good students can be stretched and challenged. Fit is important. That is what admissions are looking for. Postgrad is then a different ball game, and any of a number of top UG departments should be able to deliver post grad students of the right calibre to top post grad Universities.

A lot of kids who are interested in the Exeter Maths School don't go because they want to be with other kids who are a bit more rounded and not overly mathsy. A fair few drop out once they've started for the same reason. That's not really on point I know, but the school doesn't necessarily act as a magnet for all the serious maths talent in the area, because of its very nature.

Obviously I get that too Needmoresleep. Those getting offers from MIT etc aren't the ones I'm talking about. The decline in applications to Oxbridge will be from those at independents who previously might have been advised to have a go at Oxbridge but who are now being counselled that they stand a better chance at lower tier US unis, and their parents are able to stump up the cash to sub that. The schools themselves are going that way because it's the obvious route for marketing.

@Needmoresleep

Don't forget that any child on the verge of something like a National Maths Challenge team might well be offered a sixth form scholarship/bursary at one of the more academic private schools. Less critical now when there are places like Kings znd Exeter Maths Schools but an useful option for those who are genuinely talented. A full ride at Harvard/MIT/Stanford/Caltech is then a logical next step.

How does Oxbridge view independent school pupils on a bursary? Is it something to mention in PS?