Oxford aspirants part 5......the wait is over the results are in!!

[TangoWhiskyAlphaTango]

Thought I would start a new thread as its likely to fill up quick now.

So here we are after many months of applications, assessments and interviews. The wait is finally over for those with DC who have applied to Oxford. Those with Cambridge applicants have another 2 weeks to wait until the 25th Jan (bummer!!)

You have all been a lovely bunch to share this journey with and I wish your dc nothing but the BEST OF LUCK for tomorrow (and the 25th).

Yes. And with some subjects the odds are better than 1 in 3.

On the other hand DD4 is reading Classics and is one of the cleverest of my DC, who have read all sorts of other 'more competitive' subjects at Oxford, including Medicine and Law. I think these stats are fairly meaningless about calibre of offeree without questioning why the application rate to each subject is as it is.

How are the Cambridge aspirants getting on? 11 more sleeps.

DD's mocks are done. Weekend respite.

@goodbyestranger

On the other hand DD4 is reading Classics and is one of the cleverest of my DC, who have read all sorts of other 'more competitive' subjects at Oxford, including Medicine and Law. I think these stats are fairly meaningless about calibre of offeree without questioning why the application rate to each subject is as it is.

Nice nod to your DD4 Goodbye.

Other than Oxbridge and Durham (no offer as yet), all standard offers for her choice of languages have been ABB. she feels horribly guilty amongst her peers even though she totally understands why this is. But they don’t.

All surprisingly calm and relaxed HoneyMobster, but still a while to go. And no mocks until mid Feb, though it must feel good having them out of the way?

The top candidates may well be of a similar calibre in all subjects. There will inevitably be a difference in calibre at the bottom of the accepted list, as candidates in some subjects are in short supply.
I recently spoke to a lecturer in modern languages at a mid-ranking university. She teaches French, and said that some students, on starting there, cannot give a (correct) one line answer to even a very basic question.

She teaches French, and said that some students, on starting there, cannot give a (correct) one line answer to even a very basic question. That probably is more reflective of how the young people have been taught (and how languages teaching at school has been dumbed down over the past couple of decades) than their potential ability!

@MFLMum2021

I think the issue is one of false negatives versus false positives. There are many more deserving applicants than places. If O and C get their process right (and there is no reason to suppose they don’t) then there will be very, very few false positives - that is, students who get in but do not deserve to be there.

However, there are likely to be lots more false negatives - that is, people who do deserve to get a place but don’t. This is because - the Stephen Hawkins of the world aside - it is likely to be very difficult to distinguish between the many very good candidates, and lots of aspects about the process could make the small difference between being offered a place or not.

So there will definitely be some degree of luck/circumstance/specifics of the course/personality of applicant and interviewer etc which mean some very deserving students get an offer and some don’t.

I do agree with this. Dd has a brilliant friend who applied to Oxford but didn’t get an interview. He is very happy somewhere else. My dd is in many ways and circumstances very similar to you Innocenta although perhaps not quite as reserved? She at a normal comprehensive and isn’t the self confident, driven and competitive type of person at all, she is an anxious person and lacking in confidence generally.

@ealingwestmum, DD is in a similar position. She has all 4 other offers now as she didn’t apply to Durham. One is AAB, the rest are ABB, while Oxford is AAA. It’s very different for her friends applying for STEM subjects. Manchester, for example, has made lots of offers that are 3 A* for Maths.

It’s still not worry free though, as things stand right now there’s a risk she’ll end up with 2A* B. It’s going to need a fair bit of effort to get her third subject where it needs to be.

I don’t think languages are that “dumbed down” post the Gove reforms. DD can certainly answer more than simple questions fluently in both her A level languages.

I'm so glad for your daughter, @SirVixofVixHall - it's wonderful that she made it through interviews and that surface-level confidence wasn't the deciding factor. I actually have quite a bit of faith in their ability to pick out talented candidates even from among the quiet interviewees. (Although I take the point made earlier that many of those who go up to interview are confident types and that it likely does have some role... Not going to argue with that either, it may very well be true.)

I remember that your DD is very young, too. All the more impressive; you must be super proud of her!

I hope now that her offer is in MFLMum2021, your DD can focus clearly on achieving it, especially in that 3rd 🤞

I think there’s a vast difference from GCSE to A level ability, in addition to much of the syllabus focussed on the history, culture, politics, literature etc. On top of them bring up against native speakers (who don’t all declare!), so take comfort that they are putting themselves out there for skills that could take them down many potential opportunities, that require academic rigour!

@NewModelArmyMayhem18

She teaches French, and said that some students, on starting there, cannot give a (correct) one line answer to even a very basic question. That probably is more reflective of how the young people have been taught (and how languages teaching at school has been dumbed down over the past couple of decades) than their potential ability!

This was in Scotland - so more to do with the Scottish education system than the English one.

However, if you're interested enough in a language to choose to do it at university, in this day and age I'd expect you to have spent some time improving your language online - eg duolingo and Netflix - not just doing the minimum required by your school.

I’m assuming your suggestion applies to all course types Storminamu, not just those that appear to have an easier ride because they’re less in demand?

The English languages curriculum has been astonishingly terrible for school students up until the recent reforms of GCSE and A level. There are far too many cohorts left woefully ill educated in terms of languages in England. This is not a Scotland only thing (assuming Scotland dumbed down to the same extent too).

Thank you so much Innocenta that is very kind.

Storminamu you really, really have it in for the Scottish educational system? What is your basis for this? I'm really quite offended since my DC are all educated in the system and I have been teaching in it for 27 years. What is your beef?

Remembering from the other threads you've expressed this vociferously before.

Historically Scottish education has been far superior to English.

Which is not to say it hasn't had a wobble in recent years but still. Definitely not the case that English education is inherently superior, since it isn't.

@Puffalicious

Storminamu you really, really have it in for the Scottish educational system? What is your basis for this? I'm really quite offended since my DC are all educated in the system and I have been teaching in it for 27 years. What is your beef?

This is nothing to do with a "beef" about the Scottish education system. I didn't even mention that I was told this by a lecturer at a Scottish university, until people responded that MFL education in England has improved in recent years, so I clarified that the lecturer teaches at a Scottish university. Do I need to apologise for reporting, with great accuracy, what a French lecturer at a university told me? I think not. I will however comment that saying, as you have here, that historically Scottish education has been far superior to English education is irrelevant and unhelpful in a discussion about education in the UK NOW. If anything, the fact that educational standards in Scotland used to be far higher than they are now reflects badly on the present, surely?

It actually wasn't me who said it was historically superior. Please read correctly.

As goodbyestranger has said it has had a wobble in recent years, Curriculum for Exellence has been anything but, but it doesn't deserve the mass dismissal that it has had previously on these threads and elsewhere on MN. The fact that few Scottish students get into STEM subjects in Oxbridge has been squarely blamed on the Scottish system, rather than looking at how the entrance tests need to take cognisance of the fact that it is a very, very different system. An entire nation of pupils can't be disadvantaged because the system is different. Scottish degrees are of the same standard- St Andrew's of course has been named No 1 in the UK in one poll- so our educational system can't be inferior, just different.

DS has definitely been caught up in this disadvantage- Maths at Oxford, didn't even get an interview despite truly outstanding results and predicted equally outstanding results at Advanced Higher- as the MAT was clearly the issue. Similarly, the girl I teach who is hands down the most talented pupil I've ever taught, despite outstanding results/ predicted results/ summer school at Cambridge (our school paid for as we had such faith) dragging herself out of poverty and a tough background didn't even get an interview. It saddens me so much, so flippant comments about the state of our education system smarts.

This negativity on MN isn't fair. No wonder my thoughts on independence just solidify some days when I'm on MN.

Once again, in the context of a discussion about how competitive some subjects are as against other subjects, I mentioned something I was told my an MFL lecturer. I did not mention that that lecturer teaches at a Scottish university. I then received the response that MFL standards have improved in England over recent years. In response to that, I commented that the lecturer is at a Scottish university. I had already said that it is a mid-ranking university - not one of the top ones. That was in no way an attack on the Scottish education system. Do you think we shouldn't be able to mention anything that happens in Scotland, unless it's to compliment it?

@Storminamu

Once again, in the context of a discussion about how competitive some subjects are as against other subjects, I mentioned something I was told my an MFL lecturer. I did not mention that that lecturer teaches at a Scottish university. I then received the response that MFL standards have improved in England over recent years. In response to that, I commented that the lecturer is at a Scottish university. I had already said that it is a mid-ranking university - not one of the top ones. That was in no way an attack on the Scottish education system. Do you think we shouldn't be able to mention anything that happens in Scotland, unless it's to compliment it?

It just seemed very flippant with no discussion of how it may be a bias. I'd welcome any debate about any educational system, but there's NEVER any complimentary chat about the Scottish system. We are a different country and that needs to be recognised in entrance exams.

Apologies if you feel this way eightytwenty, I was just popping back to see how all the DC got on and, it seems, have got dragged in to a debate. I'll bow out now. It seems that I'm still upset about the whole DS situation: being told that parents of rejected DC are a bit delusional a few pages ago certainly hasn't helped. I do feel there is a smugness coming from a minority of posters and a very clear Southern bias. Not the place for me any more. Good luck all.

@Eightytwenty totally agree. Those still waiting with their DCs are in my thoughts. It's seems more real as we prepare for mocks tomorrow still sat on the C bench. Feel for Dd- looking forward to her have an answer either way and get on with it. It seems harder to wait the shorter the time gets.