Is anyone else guilty of feeling like this

[AmyWhiteshead]

www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7148929

(first post)
Came across this thread on The Student Room. This hit a bit differently. Basically DS has gotten offers from Glasgow and Cardiff (insurance) for Maths but he was aiming for Cambridge Warwick or Imperial. I know that these are all Russell Groups and good unis but it feels anticlimactic after a lot of late nights studying, anxiety and
sacrifice from mum and dad'.

This isn't a traditional is uni x good enough thread, I just feel conflicted about whether it's okay to have such high expectations of our child. I appreciate that the pandemic has made everything harder and more competitive but I am a bit disappointed.

@PotatoPie888
I would suggest that in recent years the number of A grades x 3 is a significantly bigger percentage than 10 years ago. It’s pretty well documented that more DC have A grades. It’s also true that the vast majority of successful Oxbridge candidates achieve higher than this. I therefore suggest you do look at the stats. What Oxford ask for and what qualifications students actually possess are not the same. Predicted AAA shouldn’t stop anyone applying though if AAA is what is required.

@TizerorFizz The average A level grade is somewhere between a C and B.

Dancingdreamer what you say is heretical on the MN medical threads. Good luck with that position, even if you do have industry experience :)

On the Civil Service front, the young Oxbridge graduates that I know find it very funny that that policy has simply increased the number of their peers entering the Civil Service. The best laid plans and all that.

@Gosports

But the very fact they didn’t get into oxbridge suggests that a lower (not low, lower) ranking uni is in fact the best place for them, where they won’t be about of their depth and will thrive.

I don't agree with this pov at all. Have seen many Oxbridge admissions tutors say that many more students would thrive at Oxbridge than they have space for.

@Tizerorfizz with regards to lack of pretesting for Maths at Glasgow i suspect it's because of the Scottish school exam system and the four year degree structure rather than lack of rigour. It's a Scottish uni and could not have an entry system that disadvantages Scottish applicants (well not any more than already happens but that's another story).

@Wbeezer
I am absolutely not saying Glasgow isn’t a decent university. I have not looked at what universities are 4th, 5th, 6th etc but my guess is they don’t pre test either. It’s not a sign that a university isn’t good if they don’t pre test. However the top few do. I am sure it utmost sift very over subscribed courses. The others just are not as sought after. That doesn’t make them not very good courses

@PotatoPie888
With respect, the average student isn’t applying to Oxford, Warwick or Imperial! That’s what this thread was about. Plenty of DC get an A at maths A level. Many will have it at FM too. No one would suggest an average DC applies to any of those universities and when huge numbers of DC are getting AAA it’s obvious the sifting becomes more onerous.

@TizerorFizz With respect, you suggested that AAA students are the norm. They are not. Parents who lose sight of this are at serious risk of failing to appreciate their DC’s achievements.

@PotatoPie888
What???? I have suggested they are the norm at many top ranking university courses and that’s what the thread was about. I don’t think anyone needs a lecture about being happy with what their DC achieve. The OP was finding it difficult that her DS was rejected from 3 top universities. It’s also a low tariff university that asks for CCC for example.

22.5% of students got AAA or better in 2021. Therefore it’s not rare! It’s significantly more than 10-20 years ago.

The topic of the thread is feeling guilty about dc not getting into a so-called top ranking university. I am discussing the topic. Not lecturing anybody.

I didn’t say it was rare. I said it was not the norm, as you suggested it was.

My son has applied for maths too and was rejected from Oxford, he’s still waiting to hear from imperial and St Andrews (has an offer from Warwick). It is hard as he works so hard and you wonder just what they want? But hopefully he will get an offer from at least one of those as he’s already very dejected

I suggested if was the norm for the 3 sought after universities. Context is everything.

@Darbs76
I think Oxbridge very musk filter on test results and interview. I seem to remember my friend whose DS didn’t get into Oxford feeling he could have done better at the tests/interview. However it’s really not a huge issue if he’s in at Warwick. The op’s DS isn’t. I think Warwick maths is a really good result for him and it’s full of very high achieving DC. He will be absolutely fine there and I would choose there over St Andrew’s. Imperial is very different for a number of reasons.

There's always the option of 'upgrading' later too. After attending a very average secondary modern, DD2 went to a mid-ranking, non-RG university for her first degree.

Then did her Masters at a world-leading one (ranked above Cambridge for her field of study). She got a distinction in her MSc and now all potential employers/PhD supervisors are interested in is that qualification.

Sorry, that sounds like a brag. I didn't intend it as such, just to point out that a first degree at a very good but not quite top rank university isn't necessarily a barrier to going on to one of the best in the world for future studies, if that is an objective.

@TizerorFizz I hadn’t read it that way but my apologies if that was your intention.
In any event, I still think that AX3 is still a huge personal achievement for most students. Simply because others also managed it too doesn’t (or shouldn’t) diminish that.

Hi,
I teach at one of the unis you were aiming for (not maths though). The students are not all happy! At this stage of their lives you need to accept that it's not about you and what you want anymore. I'd take him to the open days of the universities he's got in to and have a look around the cities while he mooches about the university. Make a day of it and get excited! Glasgow and Cardiff are both cool places and substantially cheaper to live in than London/ Cambridge. Once there he can hopefully learn a lot, spread his wings and have fun.
I have degrees from Manchester, Cambridge and Imperial. I was a fish out of water at Cambridge, had great fun in Manc and enjoyed Imperial as a mature and financially solvent student, not sure I'd have enjoyed it as a youngster though.
Congratulations to him for getting through the last couple of years and getting into two great universities!

I came on to make a similar point to Thing47. My DS is at a similar type of Uni to Glasgow, Humanities subject. He didn't get the grades to apply to Oxbridge and also neither of them offer the course he wanted to take. He is getting 1sts for everything, top of his class and really motivated. He may well end up at Oxbridge for Masters/PhD study. I know a lot of Oxbridge grads who despite shining at school, struggled academically and came out with 2:2s

There are very few 2:2s at Oxbridge (or indeed anywhere) these days. A 2:2 doesn’t get you into grad recruitment schemes. Even, as my friend’s DS found, a 2:2 from Cambridge kept most doors firmly closed. No post grad either.

There are lots of students treading water doing post grad studies and still ending up with no job. I think if DC want to teach/lecture a postgrad is good but others want professional qualifications via a grad scheme. Eg Human Resources, marketing, accounting etc. Many grads get forced into masters when a few years ago it wasn’t necessary. The grad scheme would train you. So not everyone wants to trade up regarding university, or indeed should have to. Only if your future career demands ir.

Hi OP in the kindest possible way not every child will get into Oxbridge / LSE / Imperial / Warwick / Durham and their ilk no matter how hard they work or how much they and their parents want them to. These universities receive so many applications they can cherry pick who they offer to - I imagine your ds would have known they were borderline maybe for these courses - what did his school advise.

I think MN can give a distorted view that everyone else has children at these establishments but that really isn’t the case. My eldest last year was rejected from tgeir first choice at Bristol for Politics and Philosophy despite exceeding all requirements- the cold facts being that they had sufficient higher ranked applicants so my child didn’t make the cut! They were offered an alternative course at Bristol but opted to go to a Manchester for philosophy and politics. In MN-land I’m sure Manchester is a failure but it is a superb Uni (and despite the press has actually been doing 95% face to face teaching). I am massively proud of them and you should be of your ds. I would say that either Glasgow or Cardiff will give him a superb experience and you just need to accept that in this case he didn’t make the cut - I know that’s hard but sadly this is a good life lesson maybe.

As I’ve said MN is not an average sample - I asked here about my younger child who has all 8’s and 9’s at GCSE applying to Oxford and was told their grades weren’t good enough. To me that seems madness but maybe it’s just a fact who knows? Anyway they’ve decided not to apply to Oxford (they are yr 12) as they don’t think they’d fit in but are considering applying for Glasgow.

Congratulations to your ds on 2 great offers.

@LadyLazarus40
Of course your youngest should apply if he/she wants. It’s quite clear that tests, A level predicted grades and PS do make a difference. So if DC can nail this and had the best GCSE results possible in the subject they want and other relevant ones, then of course have a go. It’s certainly pretty rare to see 9 x grade 9 GCSEs! Certainly not 22.5% of students as in AAA grades as I mentioned earlier.

Some subjects are just more sought after than others. If you are looking for MFL or music it really isn’t quite so hard as PPE or Law at Oxbridge. So choose wisely and be flexible.

@TizerorFizz they want to do Biology (which doesn’t test at Oxford). If I were a betting woman (which I’m not) I would say they would probably get AAA at A level on a good day and A*AA on a bad. They’ve decided it’s not for them and they wouldn’t fit in which ultimately is their choice (feel the same about Durham). At the moment they think they’ll apply to UCL, Birmingham, Glasgow, and maybe Newcastle / KCL / Manchester/ Bristol or Bath. Their sciences are all 9’s (plus Deama) and the others are 8’s (they have 10 GCSEs) which I think are fab (even if every child of a MNer has 10 9’s 😂).

[quote chopc]@Gosports sorry you find it insulting but I think on the whole this is true. A bright, driven and ambitious DC is not going to apply for a lower ranking Uni. [/quote]
I find this really insulting. DD2 applied for and was interviewed at Cambridge only to be rejected. She had a couple of offers from RG universities but they came too late for her to be able to go to their open days (half a day's notice, the other end of the country).

No doubt loads of people on here would turn their noses up at her UK university as it's not RG nor is it highly ranked. However, they have invested a lot into her STEM subject and she is currently on a year abroad at a very prestigious university, so it can't be too bad. She is bright (A*/A in 4 A levels) and ambitious but for her, it wasn't just the course, but the city, the quality of life and a whole load of other stuff.

The parents I have encountered at her institution thankfully are as grounded as their offspring. Equally, so are the parents of the graduates last summer at her sister's Cambridge college.

Oh, and the cultural reference others made to Scumbag University is wrong. It was Scumbag College. Get it right people!

@LadyLazarus40
I’m always very unhappy when DC say they won’t fit in at a university. Who do they think goes to these places? Two headed Martians? (Sorry if I’ve offended Martians with 2 heads!). If DC looks at the stats, there are way more state educated Dc at Oxbridge and Durham than privately educated. I’m assuming this is the issue. It’s perfectly possible to fit in and most students are perfectly normal and friendly.

However I’m sure there are other brilliant places for Biology and I would look at their research strengths and options. See what best fit might be. With the predicted grades he need not worry about any choice.