Oxbridge Aspirants 2022 part 3....Will they or won't they make it to interview? Our Mum nerves are in tatters!

[TangoWhiskyAlphaTango]

New thread for us, lots of lovely support whilst we wait. Some of our lovely DC now have interview dates whilst the rest of us hold our breath and try not to hassle our teens into checking their SPAM folders at least several times per day .

I agree that probably all the students on this thread are outstanding.

I think it’s also worth adding re the contextual stuff, that it’s only ONE aspect of how they look at the application - it’s a way of putting GCSEs into context. If a student did an amazing interview, or aced the entrance test, or sent in phenomenal work, that would back up the GCSE grades. If they had amazing GCSEs from a school where everyone has amazing GCSEs, and then didn’t shine in any of the other areas, that might suggest that they are not best suited to Oxbridge.

Basically they want to find the people who will flourish the most, and it isn’t a system that will suit everyone, no matter how clever or hardworking or outstanding you are. You would be very very miserable for 3 years if you got in and weren’t suited to that style of teaching, or the massive weight of reading every week, or the speed of learning.

BUT. I really hope everyone on here gets the absolute best outcome for them,, whatever that is!

Yes. I know my ds is extremely intelligent, hardworking along with his many other good qualities. But I'm genuinely not convinced that the intensity of a Cambridge degree is right for him - it probably wasn't right for me, though i loved much of it, and his dad had an actual breakdown! So I'm relying on this process to tease out a bit more whether it is really a good idea for ds or not. If not, he has done enough to get other offers, and that's fine.

Mine had a bit of a sulk yesterday when I gave him something to read so we could discuss (a la the interview) and he didn't understand it. It's the first wobble I have seen from him.

Puffalicious I can only hope that your DS's referee has translated the language for those south of Gretna Green.

And no, I disagree, a DS who is right up at the top of his school across five different subjects is genuinely outstanding. Other DC are not and are having a go without much prospect of success. That's just reality.

@goodbyestranger

Puffalicious I can only hope that your DS's referee has translated the language for those south of Gretna Green.

And no, I disagree, a DS who is right up at the top of his school across five different subjects is genuinely outstanding. Other DC are not and are having a go without much prospect of success. That's just reality.

That's interesting. It depends where you're coming from. At DS' (and my)school it's rare for kids to apply to Oxbridge: the nature of his school and the fact that fees need paid as opposed to Scottish universities, so anyone who does apply usually is outstanding. If you're at a school where loads apply, perhaps you think you'll have a punt too.

Interesting points Bilberrybaggins, it's definitely true that it won't suit everyone no matter how smart they are. I want DS to be where suits him. I want everyone on the thread to get the experience they deserve.

@PermanentTemporary

Yes. I know my ds is extremely intelligent, hardworking along with his many other good qualities. But I'm genuinely not convinced that the intensity of a Cambridge degree is right for him - it probably wasn't right for me, though i loved much of it, and his dad had an actual breakdown! So I'm relying on this process to tease out a bit more whether it is really a good idea for ds or not. If not, he has done enough to get other offers, and that's fine.

Gosh I could write this about DD too. She gets very stressed by the pressure SHE puts on herself (never ever me). We often have tears when she is overwhelmed and I do genuinely fear if she did get in it may be too much and take away some of the enjoyment of the whole Uni experience. Yet she wanted to try and I fully support her but I also know whether she goes to Bath or Nottingham she will flourish.

And Puffalicious that is the problem of course and has been for ever. Heaps of kids applying from schools where there's parental expectation that Oxbridge is the natural next step after an expensive secondary education, and far too few from schools where the perception is that you need to be genuinely outstanding to apply, when of course you don't. No doubt the mediocre Oxford students a previous poster encountered in her time there were from the former group. Things are shifting now of course, as everyone knows.

@Piggywaspushed DD has applied to Clare for HSPS. Her GCSEs were 9998777776, A-level predictions A A A for English Lit, History and Politics. The thing is she is outstanding at English her writing and critical analysis is superb (so said her teachers and her grades reflect this) but she was not outstanding in other areas (science, maths etc). I fear that as she did not have to submit any form of writing for the course this will have disadvantaged her and she will be rejected based on her GCSEs. Of course I don't actually know that yet but just surmising due to the number of rejections I am seeing on TSR with bloody top notch grades across the board.

I will be glad when this week is over and she knows one way or another now i think she is finding it tough going juggling mock revision and having a potential interview looming over her. DD, unlike my DS who is the year below her, is most definitely not the relaxed type of student who takes things in their stride, she does get overwhelmed bless her

Those rejections on TSR seemed to be mainly for NatSci, didn't they? They have entrance tests. Looking at the spreadsheet, it looks like Clare are being a bit slower.

DS is brighter than his CAGs suggest so I am relieved he got an interview. His written work wasn't honestly amazing. The essay for sociology was undermarked 26/30 .

@Piggywaspushed

Those rejections on TSR seemed to be mainly for NatSci, didn't they? They have entrance tests. Looking at the spreadsheet, it looks like Clare are being a bit slower.

DS is brighter than his CAGs suggest so I am relieved he got an interview. His written work wasn't honestly amazing. The essay for sociology was undermarked 26/30 .

Yes mainly that and law both fiercely competitive too it would seem. I know you're right I am just becoming one of those obsessive types!

Having DS1 already at Oxford I am really mindful of being careful what you wish for. The amount of work and the pace is relentless, particularly as a Fresher. He has struggled but is getting on better this year. I spoke to him yesterday and he told me how he dreams of lie ins and doing nothing. Fortunately he loves his subject so is managing. I'd like to think the interview process is designed to identify students who will adjust to the Oxbridge way of working.

I think DD is probably suited to what could lie ahead but she is prone to perfectionism so that could be an issue. DS2 is now making noises about next year but I'm not convinced it's the right place for him, he needs a bit more space to do other things (he rows).

DS works v hard. Up at 7am every morning . Very regimented. Would never leave things to last minute, or pull an all nighter, unless he changes a great deal. He definitely has the right work ethic, certainly compared to nearly al the students I teach! For example, he has no lessons on Tuesday and so works from 9 til about 2 at home!. He will find things to do if he hasn't been set specific work, too. I am not sure he has the brilliance, or feels all that comfortable when stepping outside comfort zones. So, we'll see.

@PermanentTemporary @TangoWhiskyAlphaTango

I'm with both of you there. I'd have been humphy had dd not got an interview, but at the same time, as I've said in earlier threads, personally, I'm not sure it's for her. But if she gets through the process, then obviously it's up to her.

St A have now asked for the same transcript of subjects/topics that Cambridge asked for, so got to send that off now. C wanted the marks too, but St A didn't specify. As the transcript I've got has got them, and been signed off by the HT, they're getting them anyway.

I think maybe what is not helping is that we are told here and on TSR that Cambridge interviews 75% of applicants. That perhaps builds up an expectation that you/your DC will get that far and those who don't have 'low' grades. It is obviously a fuller story than that and highly variable across subjects, I'd guess?

@goodbyestranger

And Puffalicious that is the problem of course and has been for ever. Heaps of kids applying from schools where there's parental expectation that Oxbridge is the natural next step after an expensive secondary education, and far too few from schools where the perception is that you need to be genuinely outstanding to apply, when of course you don't. No doubt the mediocre Oxford students a previous poster encountered in her time there were from the former group. Things are shifting now of course, as everyone knows.

Interesting and I think you're right. Certainly no pupils, and I mean none, in 27 years of teaching in an inner-city deprived school have ever applied for Oxbridge. We have our first this year (Cambridge Physics): she is genuinely outstanding and if she doesn't get in it's an absolute travesty. I want her to get in more than my own DS.

Piggy my fear is that my DS is very much not like that! He is outstanding academically but he's very laid back a nd likes to party and has lots of hobbies. It's up to him, but the more I hear of experiences like your DS SandeyBailey I'm not sure

He is almost certainly more naturally clever than my DS who typifies 'industrious'. His teachers' reference was edited because the initial reference had the word 'diligent 'in it 9 times!

Puffalicious I have had very laid back party boys who've struck exactly the right balance at Oxford and emerged with firsts; clearly it can be done - no idea how. Although DS2 did say that his weekly tutorial in second year which always fell after the student night at Bridge (club) took more effort than he'd have liked.

I’d like DD to get an interview.

If C sus her out, and she isn’t a fit for their style of teaching, then we accept it is for the best and move on.

Given that she exceeds their standard offer, it would be harder to move on if she wasn’t interviewed. I can’t judge her personal statement (I can say it was grammatically correct and substantively coherent, but that is it.) I haven’t been privy to her teacher’s recommendation, I don’t think her school wants parents making complaints, critiques or suggestions!

We would just be left wondering what a personal statement should have been or if her teacher had damned her with faint praise.

Funny Piggy.

Good to know goodbyestranger. Said DS is sleeping off a VERY big night out on Friday night. He needed to be up early yest so is now making up for it

I'm pleased to see the reality displayed on here. Sad to write but Oxbridge is not for everyone. DD1 has loved her time at C and done amazingly well. DD2, bright, loving, fab sense of humour applied too, was interviewed but rejected. She was sore for a couple of days but her closest friends were rejected from O so she was in good company. She is at a different university on another path, but this course is broader and she is branching out in a very different way from her sister. With the benefit of hindsight, I don't think C was the right place for her, but to have denied her the opportunity to try, as her transient Head of Year tried to do, would have been cruel.

The workload at Oxbridge is intense. However, there does seem to be time to do a couple of other things alongside the course. Whilst in the Autumn term of year 13, DD1 learned to drive, passed her test 5 days after crashing her car, took and passed grade 8 in ballet and an instrument and had interviews at Imperial and Bath. She learned then about prioritising work and doing enough.

Something else to bear in mind; Christmas and Easter vacations are not downtime at Oxbridge. Easter was all about revision and Christmas was spent sorting out notes and getting everything up to date. I think DD took Christmas Day off but did some work on every other day. Until Covid, she worked every summer and as well as earning some money, it helped to build her CV.

DS hasn't heard about an interview but he isn't too fussed as really wants Warwick now he has an offer there. He works hard but I'm not sure Cambridge would suit him as he wants to go back to swimming when at Uni - quit last year after 11 years - and also do all other sports he possibly can! I want him to have the maximum fun experience he can have wherever he goes as well as all the work that comes with it. He was 9x9 and 2x8 for GCSE and I think one of the 8s in maths possibly would have been an exam 9 as he got through to pink kangaroo just before lockdown! Very strong maths cohort though. Predictions are A* for history and English and A for French but year 12 disaster for history teaching - both now not teaching year 13 and 2 of his 3 French teachers also gone for year 13 so God knows what he will end up with. Normal comprehensive school but usually good results and half a dozen Oxbridge a year.

Have no idea was UCAS reference was like as we don't see those hut he has offers from other 4 choices so hopefully it was okay!

I appreciate your post Malbec. It’s good to hear these stories.

@BilberryBaggins

I don't think it is handicapping people in other cohorts; if you look at an independent school for example, if you didn't think it was beneficial to go there (ie if it wasn't conferring advantage by being in that school), then you wouldn't pay the fees.

With grammar schools it's a bit more complex, because it depends on your local set-up, but you still have the phenomenon where in a school where a much smaller proportion of the cohort achieve high grades, it is harder to personally buck the trend and reach those levels. For example if you are in a school with no 6th form, you may have fewer specialist teachers, because there is an incentive for specialist teachers to want to teach A level.

When you look at the actual make up of Oxbridge cohorts, it's clear that any and all of these contextual aspects do not really prejudice against students in grammar and independent schools.

I think the GCSE CAGs of last year threw up some interesting comparisons. Until recently I worked in a poor-performing secondary school (not on the teaching side but as anyone knows who works as support staff in schools you still get to hear all the political stuff that goes on). My own children go to the only grammar in our city. My kids' school seemed to grade "harshly", whereas let's just say there were some VERY surprising high results coming out of the comp . There were rumours (that I can well believe) that when a member of SLT was given the grades by the HODs to oversee & sign off, that there was a bit of a blanket "oh, let's err on the side of caution and put them at the higher grade". Had some of the HODs had to provide evidence for those grades they probably would have struggled to do so, but the grades stood. It was a punt, and it paid off.

At my kids' grammar, just from talking to other parents and hearing what DS told me (and being surprised at one of his grades, lower than expected), a lot of the kids seemed to NOT be given the benefit of the doubt in many cases, and given the lower grade. The school, which obviously as a grammar, already has very high expectations and standards, didn't seem to drop this approach at all when deciding CAGs, and seemed to award the lower grade where they were unsure about particular students. In the comp I am referring to, and in many others, I'm sure, they seemed to award the higher grade of the 2 possibles. making comparisons very very hard for that cohort when it comes to GCSEs.

I sometimes think there is bias against grammar school kids in cases like this. There is no leeway given to them at all by their own school. It's just expected that they will do well, and you're in trouble if you look as though you might drag the school's rep down. It doesn't matter what work and effort a pupil has put in to stay at the desired level in a grammar, or what their home life may be like, if all the unis see is "grammar school" on their application. I sometimes think that academic kids at some poor performing comps don't actually have to perform that well to stick out from the others. Without actual exams it makes it really hard to tell what the true ability actually is.

Some fascinating insights on this thread, thanks for sharing.

DD has just had invitation to interview for HSPS so we’ve breathed a collective sigh of relief, now to support her preparation (and manage expectations!).