Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

Out of interest, why is it taking twice as long to deliver a lecture online, as opposed to in the lecture theatre? I thought they weren't being done with Q&A (like e.g the now online-specific public Gresham lectures are), because that means involving a non-existent extra member of staff in the moderation etc? I must admit that DD has only mentioned the seminar / tutorial aspect of her course.

Also out of interest, since in normal times the official changing of the way a given course is delivered, assessed etc is so convoluted and beset by beaurocracy, presumably if the government decree at some point is that all emergency legislation is now rescinded, all teaching would have to revert to how it was last advertised in normal times, with no scope for the SAGE members at individual universities to sway them not to comply?

My DD is at a collegiate university where she has had ftf teaching, all legal and socially distanced. She’s been supported, and has basically fared ok. She’s a 2nd year.

My DS is at a different collegiate university. He has never even met any of his supervisors, despite there being not one but two marquees in his college which other supervisors have been using for teaching. His college mandates eating at 2m distance in the dining hall, even within households, so he doesn’t see the point and eats alone. And works for 10 to 12 hours a day, at a screen in his room.

Don’t tell me all universities/staff have all tried their best.

@MarchingFrogs

Out of interest, why is it taking twice as long to deliver a lecture online, as opposed to in the lecture theatre? I thought they weren't being done with Q&A (like e.g the now online-specific public Gresham lectures are), because that means involving a non-existent extra member of staff in the moderation etc? I must admit that DD has only mentioned the seminar / tutorial aspect of her course.

Also out of interest, since in normal times the official changing of the way a given course is delivered, assessed etc is so convoluted and beset by beaurocracy, presumably if the government decree at some point is that all emergency legislation is now rescinded, all teaching would have to revert to how it was last advertised in normal times, with no scope for the SAGE members at individual universities to sway them not to comply?

For me it's because I don't do traditional lectures. All my sessions are interactive. What works well in a non socially distanced class room doesn't work online. All my sessions need to be redesigned.

@RampantIvy We have tried to make online lectures easier to digest by limiting them to around 20 minutes. Inevitably, this does mean that there are more of them.

To help the students manage their time, we essentially replicate a normal timetable by splitting the online module resources into week long sections containing all they need to do that week to stay in front.

This was done in response to feedback from the students at the end of the last academic year when some had really struggled to work out what they had to do and when.

My son's course I believe has had no lectures this year (law post grad) and just on line workshops some of which are a waste of time as you just watch others in the group getting things wrong rather than learn from someone teaching you. However they are both awaiting results now so hopefully have passed and can go on to next year's course so not the end of the world. Whereas girl friend of one son at the competitor institution to theirs has had lectures and also had for some of the year face to face lectures in a lecture hall.

Out of interest, why is it taking twice as long to deliver a lecture online, as opposed to in the lecture theatre?

Speaking for myself only, it is because I can walk into a lecture theatre and talk for 50 minutes without needing any more prep than flicking through slides beforehand to remind me of which is coming when. When I sit in front of a microphone, I just can't do it. I have to write myself a script and it takes hours to get it right.

all teaching would have to revert to how it was last advertised in normal times, with no scope for the SAGE members at individual universities to sway them not to comply?

I have just today made some minor amendments to one of my modules for September, in order to enable me to have flexibility for online and/or in person, or a mixture of both.

And university bureaucracy is because although we are autonomous institutions, we are also overseen by various instruments of government surveillance and legislation.

But you know, parents on this thread can keep on HE bashing.

I think what I see is a prime example of projection, and a kind of infantilised projection at that. Parent posters are raging about COVID and all that they've gone through this year (well, we've all gone through it, but never mind). And they're projecting their rage and "It's not faaaaaaiiiirrr" (the child-like response) onto university lecturers. Reason is left behind in this sort of state.

The academic posters on this thread have responded patiently. We explain things rationally, and give reasons - because - well - because that's what we do as professionals. And we're motivated by a pedagogical desire to analyse & break things down for you, to help you to understand.

But it falls on largely deaf ears. The patience of academic posters on this thread is extraordinary!

as you just watch others in the group getting things wrong rather than learn from someone teaching you

Your notion of teaching is very old-fashioned one.

We actually learn by making mistakes.

As evidenced by this thread, we can "teach" by explaining things rationally and reasonably, but if someone doesn't want to learn, then nothing happens.

Don’t tell me all universities/staff have all tried their best.

No one on this thread has said this.

The pp talking about teaching outside

That’s a gimmick at best. And given that the weather has been poor for most of the academic year so far, uncomfortable too!

Students collaborating in groups with appropriate materials and input online is going to be miles better than a bunch of damp students hanging around in a park with a tutor who can’t approach them to check what they are doing.

Yes teachers were being bashed during the first lockdown. However provisions for most people were good during the second and third lockdowns. How did this happen? What happened to the excuses / reasons of the first lockdown.

In the same way Universities - not just the academics but the people operating universities need to accept that the students have had a terrible time and need to do everything in their power to improve things.

There is no feasible reason why small groups tutorials etc can't take place. I think even during the lockdown people were allowed to meet for education?

Between September and the start of December we were allowed socially distanced teaching on campus but for many courses the sheer number of students made that impossible.

Since the 9th of December we have not been allowed on campus teaching. Certain courses were allowed to resume from the 8th March.

So no, we weren't allowed to teach on campus during lockdown.

I’m sure small group tutorials will be some of the first to resume. But it’s not been as simple as that.

Small classes usually happen in small rooms. During any kind of distancing, we can’t physically accommodate the students we normally would in the spaces we have. I frequently teach groups of around 12. I’d have needed to teach them in three batches, so I’d have had to reduce contact time by two thirds in order to give them in person learning. The class would have needed to be more like a lecture and less collaborative because neither students nor tutors could sit around a table together. Having well managed and designed online learning is preferable to this.

Our planning for blended learning includes flipped activities, plenty of online f2f and then half group in person sessions. The blended students will get the same number of contact hours as they would for the fully online option, meaning blended tutors are going to teach extra to allow for the doubling of in person classes. That’s a lot of extra effort, both in planning and execution. It will hopefully mean the course can go ahead as planned and mitigate against further changes in policy.

There is no feasible reason why small groups tutorials etc can't take place. I think even during the lockdown people were allowed to meet for education?

Errr really? That's news to us. Also news to the DfE who were clear that uni teaching should remain online bar (human) medical courses.

So yeah, is that a feasible reason? Or still not good enough?

@MangosteenSoda

I’m sure small group tutorials will be some of the first to resume. But it’s not been as simple as that.

Small classes usually happen in small rooms. During any kind of distancing, we can’t physically accommodate the students we normally would in the spaces we have. I frequently teach groups of around 12. I’d have needed to teach them in three batches, so I’d have had to reduce contact time by two thirds in order to give them in person learning. The class would have needed to be more like a lecture and less collaborative because neither students nor tutors could sit around a table together. Having well managed and designed online learning is preferable to this.

Our planning for blended learning includes flipped activities, plenty of online f2f and then half group in person sessions. The blended students will get the same number of contact hours as they would for the fully online option, meaning blended tutors are going to teach extra to allow for the doubling of in person classes. That’s a lot of extra effort, both in planning and execution. It will hopefully mean the course can go ahead as planned and mitigate against further changes in policy.

Social distancing to go in June. Why is this news to anyone?!

Out of interest, why is it taking twice as long to deliver a lecture online, as opposed to in the lecture theatre?

I have no idea @MarchingFrogs. DD will click open a lecture and it shows the total time of one hour 20 minutes for example. Maybe the lecturer rabbits on too much, maybe there is more content, maybe the lecturer knows that there are no time constraints?

To help the students manage their time, we essentially replicate a normal timetable by splitting the online module resources into week long sections containing all they need to do that week to stay in front.

That has most definitely not happened at DD’s university @Etulosba. During the first semester she would get 5 lectures one week, and 27 lectures the next week. Her course covers multiple topics (biomedical sciences) and I don’t think any of the departments within the medical school communicate with each other. The course director is universally disliked among the students, and doesn’t appear to listen to them. DD says that morale is seriously low among the students.

She also gets things sprung on her like three days over a bank holiday weekend to prepare a presentation.

Luckily she has some really supportive friends in her house share and from the course.

Social distancing to go in June. Why is this news to anyone?!

We hope it will. We don't know for sure.
It's only been confirmed today that we can resume on campus teaching next week! And this still has to be socially distanced.

If we are told we have to maintain any kind of social distancing that will have huge ramifications for f2f teaching.

We didn’t know when social distancing would end when we started (and did the bulk of) development. We don’t know if it will be reintroduced. We have been trying to let students know what they can expect when we publish information about the course. So reality meets expectations.

In Jan we were expecting some in person learning from mid Feb. In Sep, we expected some on campus activity during the first term and ended up in almost perpetual lockdown.

Whole industries are preparing to open up fully in June - hospitality, airlines, theatres etc but unis are somehow different. Only different in that they get funding anyway.

@Newgirls

Whole industries are preparing to open up fully in June - hospitality, airlines, theatres etc but unis are somehow different. Only different in that they get funding anyway.

I mean, last time I checked universities were different to an airline but maybe you know best 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Newgirls no the difference is that there is no teaching over the summer months so it's not a question of re-opening after June. There is nothing to re-open - the year is over. The discussion here is about September and not June. When it comes to September no one knows whether social distancing will be brought back in September no matter what Boris says now.

Plus the last time I checked whilst businesses are allowed to re-open - no one is actually forced to. It's a choice that every business makes for themselves i.e. exactly what unis are doing

Yep universities are special in all ways - in their reluctance to find solutions and open up!

[quote FHOJfinf18]@Newgirls no the difference is that there is no teaching over the summer months so it's not a question of re-opening after June. There is nothing to re-open - the year is over. The discussion here is about September and not June. When it comes to September no one knows whether social distancing will be brought back in September no matter what Boris says now.

Plus the last time I checked whilst businesses are allowed to re-open - no one is actually forced to. It's a choice that every business makes for themselves i.e. exactly what unis are doing[/quote]
Jeez there are some patronising uni staff on here. The roadmap says June. Businesses are making plans around that. Except unis. Because they can get away it with basically.

[quote FHOJfinf18]@Newgirls no the difference is that there is no teaching over the summer months so it's not a question of re-opening after June. There is nothing to re-open - the year is over. The discussion here is about September and not June. When it comes to September no one knows whether social distancing will be brought back in September no matter what Boris says now.

Plus the last time I checked whilst businesses are allowed to re-open - no one is actually forced to. It's a choice that every business makes for themselves i.e. exactly what unis are doing[/quote]
Difference is that businesses who don't re-open don't get money and their customers go elsewhere. Not the same with students who are a captive audience and Unis get their money whether they deliver F2F or not, so little incentive for them until they start seeing a reduction in student numbers.