Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

@AllThatisSolid please read more carefully. Lots of posts saying just that.

I'd echo the comments on cameras and mics. If you are going to uni next academic year or your children are and it's online then do actually engage. Weve run the stats on how students engage with it all and unsurprisingly, those who watch the pre recorded content and have cameras on get far higher grades. There's some students I've never seen or heard from this year who just hide and even when being called on by name will not respond, even in the chat function. Online delivery could be fantastic IF we had active participation from students. Unfortunately at my institution we were not allowed to ask students to turn cameras on and it was challenging to say the least when we had planned class debates etc to find students just mute/camera off and only attend so they don't get bad attendance against their name.

@Duplobuplo it makes the wifi run slow though and then students can't hear the lecture. Cameras on is a lovely idea but in practice just makes everything hang, unless you have fab connections.

The principle behind the vaccination schedule was 'prevention of mortality', so people at greatest risk of dying (the oldest non-vaccinated age group at any point in time) or of passing Covid directly on to people who were at greatest risk of dying (NHS and care home workers who come into contact with the elderly and ill) are prioritised. NHS and care home workers were not prioritised for their own safety.

At every point I have said not all Unis.

No actually, you haven’t and you’ve been pulled up on this. I’m not angry so much as pissed off that you are arrogant enough to generalise from one second hand account of one undergrad experience to think you can take the whole sector to task. We have patiently explained why various universities may have made the decisions they have. There are laws, which you seem to think it’s imperative that university staff break, and you consistently misunderstand and exaggerate what experienced academic staff are telling you about why and how we have kept on teaching throughout the pandemic.

You seem to think that somehow, your undergraduate daughter should somehow be exempt from the rubbish situation of the whole country (indeed the world) over this last year.

We are in a global pandemic, with a nasty disease. Why would students at universities be any different to the millions of other citizens of this country? The virus doesn’t stop at the entrance to the campus, FFS.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Duplobuplo it makes the wifi run slow though and then students can't hear the lecture. Cameras on is a lovely idea but in practice just makes everything hang, unless you have fab connections.[/quote]
We are aware of this. But students don't even turn their mics on for a full hour session or even respond in the chat. Plus, I'm in teams meetings all day with people and very very few have any issues with connectivity. If you want a good 'student experience' then you do have to be a little proactive. There's only so much lecturers can do.

Perhaps you need to stop confusing verb tenses then, or be clearer - you have posted about September in the past tense, without clarifying which September you mean.

I can assure you that at my institution we are looking forward to in person teaching in September 2021, but that some big lectures may not be permitted. And that we have learnt, from the pandemic, that we can do blended teaching -some online aspects, students have enjoyed, and enjoyed before the pandemic.

In fact, one of mine commented in March, in a session where I asked them to reflect on what they’d learnt since January, that they couldn’t have done what they’d done in this particular module, if it had been in the classroom. They actually spoke about the positive new skills they’d acquired, and how they’d learnt a lot about themselves and what they could achieve.

My students are great.

Serious/ongoing connectivity problems have been fairly rare tbh. Much less of a problem than I expected. So many of the students are so into gaming, I think they have better internet systems than most small countries.

@MangosteenSoda

Serious/ongoing connectivity problems have been fairly rare tbh. Much less of a problem than I expected. So many of the students are so into gaming, I think they have better internet systems than most small countries.

Students in campus accommodation have no choice about the speed of their wifi - they're at the liberty of the campus wifi system.

I have face-to-face teaching planned for the next few weeks.

I've just had an email from one group asking if they have to attend all the sessions in person.

@AllThatisSolid

And some seem to want it to continue next year.

You continue to mis-read what lecturers here are saying @mumsneedwine. There is good pedagogical research going back (in my knowledge) around 30-35 years to say that lectures might be an efficient way to get a lot of information to a large group, but they are not necessarily an effective tool for student learning (there's a distinction here between teaching & learning).

So academics have for some time been experimenting with 'flipping' the lecture theatre, for example, and trying other ways of getting the basic information into students, without recourse to big group lectures. We've been doing it in y department because there is a consistent response from students that they don't "enjoy" lectures, and they find them "boring." The lectures are given by the same colleagues who are annually nominated by the same student body for teaching awards so it's not that we are "bad" lecturers.

So your understanding of university teaching is quite limited, I suspect, and quite conventional - perhaps you think university teaching is just school teaching but a year further on ... it's not.

The pandemic has forced us to switch very quickly to teaching differently, mid-stream, as it were. But that shouldn't stop any of us reflecting on what works for our students. In my department, we've had feedback that the short pre-recorded lecture is a good way for students to gain an introduction to a topic, and I've seen how this works myself. So I'll probably keep tat aspect of my modules for next year. And you know, if I approach the same seminar topics as last year, I may well just use the same short lecture. Why not? The data hasn't changed.

I absolutely agree with all you are saying there is massive benefits from re assessing tools for student learning but I will reiterate my points above students are presently receiving an on campus lecture which is designed for that forum as an online learning tool. Thus receiving the worst of worlds What is needed is online lectures produced for online learning but I have been told above these are time consuming to produce and may require professional equipment so most lecturers have not been able to do so . I think students therefore have a right to be slightly aggrieved that these online lectures may have to carry on into September to December so for many students equating to half their degree using this forum even though the government may allow F2F .(so effectively saying we could legally give you something better but we won’t ) I have seen the lectures first hand they were probably fantastic in the lecture theatre but lose translation online (like watching a pirate video of a film someone recorded in a cinema). They are certainty a suitable stop gap for a pandemic but let’s not kid ourselves that students are receiving a comparable method of teaching these lectures are a massive compromise to usual standards and it sounds like time constraints and technology limit any improvement on this to produce proper online content. I would have thought universities if they really cared about their students would be desperate to abandon these teaching methods as soon as they were legally allowed too. (Obviously if online lectures were produced for an online audience as a rule I would be more than happy to understand a policy of caution as these would be a comparable learning tool). One lecturer talked about parity in learning on another thread and this is what we want an equivalent learning experience and yes the pandemic has limited this but let’s not drag it out in September when other alternatives are available. where is the unreasonableness of this.

What is needed is online lectures produced for online learning but I have been told above these are time consuming to produce and may require professional equipment so most lecturers have not been able to do so .

I suspect that support and access to professional quality equipment for creating online lectures will improve once restrictions are relaxed.

I can only speak from my own experience and that is that connection problems haven’t been a widespread problem on any of my courses. Including students in campus accommodation.

Participating with cameras and mics isn’t necessary during lectures, but is very beneficial in small/medium group activities. A pp keeps saying ‘they can’t hear the lecture’, but lots of teaching isn’t lecture based. The students need to ask questions and interact with tutors and peers.

Both lecturers and students need to put a lot of effort in to make the experience as good as it can be for everyone.

I’ve no doubt that many in the HE sector have worked extremely hard, in challenging conditions.

But my DS has supervisions with just one other student. His college has two marquees which staff can book for supervisions. And yet he has not had one single session of in-person teaching. He has had just one meal in Hall —because he doesn’t see the point of sitting 2m from others (even those in his household) per his college rules. I know for a fact that other students at his university are having a very different experience— all within the rules. So I am very angry with those whose pusillanimous decisions have ensured that my son has had a terrible experience.

...and very anxious that unnecessary restrictions will be consigned to history by this autumn.

I’ve just spent a bit over 6k on a garden office. By the time I’ve bought a desk, chair, heater and filing cabinet and printer it will be getting on for 7k. Believe me I’d rather teach on campus and be allowed back to my office than have to spend this money.

@MangosteenSoda

Serious/ongoing connectivity problems have been fairly rare tbh. Much less of a problem than I expected. So many of the students are so into gaming, I think they have better internet systems than most small countries.

Been a constant nightmare on my course... Blackboard having "blackboard moments" only unlike in other years where it means you can't get at the lecture PowerPoints (which I always have downloaded pretty much as soon as they go up), it buggers up the live teaching sessions as well (wish to God they'd use Teams). Days where everyone sounds like Daleks and my wifi is not the greatest despite umpteen boosters and ethernet cables everywhere as I'm at the far end of the house - there are days I can't put a mic on as I'm incomprehensible (top tier internet available in the area as well so it's not as simple as switching ISP).

I've had to buy a new laptop as my not-old one (but bought just to take to and from campus) was NOT coping with running an online session and pulling up a document we were working on, and taking notes at all well - and we have a time pretty much in every session or seminar where the lecturer's screen will lag out and we've got to wait for 5-10 minutes watching them try to talk with no slides until it gets itself back on kilter and catches up.

As for campus internet - Eduroam has always been a bit of a bloody diva at the end of the campus my course department is based on and I gather the Halls wifi is about as bad. We've had none of the visiting lecturers teaching specific areas of the course that other years have had - we've had old recordings reused from previous years, and there are some visiting sessions where normally we would have been able to get very hands on with equipment and software that we may well be using with patients - and we've had none of that.

There was a hell of a lot of goodwill among us for how the staff flipped things for online teaching and the fact that, especially at the start of last year, we were all winging it a bit - but we were still in seminars at the start of this month where none of the technology was working, people couldn't hear each other and half of the time was lost.

We've had sessions trying to analyse speech samples where sharing videos wasn't working and we ended up with someone's phone being held to their laptop mic - and couldn't hear for shit.

We're actually all incredibly fond of our lecturers and very very respectful and appreciative of them (every year our department get asked how the hell they have student satisfaction so high and it's cos the staff - bar one - are real good uni) - but the whole situations been shit. There's been this "muddle on and make the best of it" goodwill base this year - but when we still have no bloody word on if it's going to be the same next year - it's bollocks. I really really do regret not suspending studies this year - I won't next year as it's only one term of taught content and it'll be grit... my... teeth... and... gli-has she disconnected-tch... through it - but otherwise I would, and I suspect universities know that and are taking the longest time possible to pretty much get us all signed up to carry on and committed before they drop the timetabling turd on us. THAT is the element I object to.

I truely believe that many have taken advantage of covid.
I don't want A level students going to Uni, to experience this poor substitute of the 'Uni experience' it should be. Makes me very sad.

[quote FHOJfinf18]@mumsneedwine Because vaccination by age is most efficient for bringing down hospital admissions rather than occupation.Plus in the UK teachers tend to be young and therefore not a priority.

And my uni has done lots of research -a lot of our students are happynfor lectures to be online.Trust me the unis have done enough research so they do know what students are happy happy with or will out up with. Our admissions are up again this year so students are definitely not deserting top RG unis no matter what their teaching provision is like. Realistically post92 unis have been much better this past year than RG unis but if you have to take out the same level of debt what you going to pick - LSE and UCL or Central Lancashire University....???? And unis know that[/quote]
I would love to see this research I would love to know who was asked and by whom as first years have never had face to face and third years don’t care as they are leaving! Also how was this data collected , anonymously or not I would also love to know the definition of online content (last years campus lectures , pdf files or proper online produced learning). I don’t buy it. I am fairly confident my own research based on what has actually been produced this year and 25 of my daughters friends from a cross section of universities would yield the opposite response. If this research is publicly available please let’s see it I would love to look at it
And yeah my DD is at a RG Uni as are most her friends and you are right post 92 unis have been a lot better

I've just had an email from one group asking if they have to attend all the sessions in person.

How dare you suggest that not all students everywhere are champing at the bit to be there in person, all day, every day! you must be making it up

This is an examination term for us, but once those (live) assessments are over, and while we’re marking, we also offer an enrichment programme for our students in my department. All voluntary, but all stuff to help them with their next year, or employability and so on. I’ve got some sessions lined up live - I’ll be 3 weeks post double vaccinated so it’ll be as safe as it can be for me (clinically vulnerable).

I’ll be very interested to see how many sign up, and then how many actually turn up. We’re offering the opportunity for students to zoom in as well.

And we’ve had several requests that I know of, for students next year to stay at home and attend remotely. Their choice, not ours. I suspect we’ll be saying No, and get complaints about that …

@Stirmecrazy The plural of anecdote is not data.

But there you go again, basically saying an academic on this thread is not telling the truth ….

I truely believe that many have taken advantage of covid.

To do what exactly?

Fwiw the systems they have in place this year at my institution have provided the students with far more support than usual. Students have had far more guidance on assessments, deadlines have been extended no question, one to one support has been extensive and we've provided specialist sessions on coursework in addition to our usual offerings. We are under intense pressure to demonstrate no detriment of covid so all in all it will result in grade inflation. So the experience might not be the best but I think this year will be the easiest for students to get good grades and I suspect the 1st years will get a sharp shock once we return fully face to face and they realise what independent learning really is.

🤷‍♀️ I'll leave this now as I have to carry on marking so our students can get a grade. We are now exam boards as well as schools (yes lots of people have had to work harder). Maybe I'll get my younger colleagues to tick the key worker box on the vaccine website now as quite obviously that's why we are all back and Unis aren't.
I find it v sad that SOME Uni staff can't see how badly the students have been treated. Nearly every parent has said their child has had a bad experience yet there is little acknowledgment that moving back to normal will ever happen. Our poor kids. What a rubbish time to be young. And what a stunted education they are going to receive. Makes me so sad for them.

@CovidCorvid

I’ve just spent a bit over 6k on a garden office. By the time I’ve bought a desk, chair, heater and filing cabinet and printer it will be getting on for 7k. Believe me I’d rather teach on campus and be allowed back to my office than have to spend this money.

Why have you done this I don’t understand you will be allowed back next month! June 21st...unless you know something no one else does