Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

And yes, the rules for universities were/are different to schools. You can't compare the two!

@DelBocaVista there were no rules on that until late October. I still find it weird that I have never have had to socially distance whilst teaching. Yes Unis and schools are different but COVID isn't.

@AllThatisSolid that was your Uni rules. As you can see from your colleagues on here other Unis they were doing things differently. Some have stated that they were doing f2f from September. Unis made their own rules up long before it became guidance.

[quote mumsneedwine]@AllThatisSolid 🤷‍♀️ I was in every day from September - December and there were NO rules preventing Universities doing the same at the start of the academic year. So not baseless, as it actually happened. Why can't you accept that ??[/quote]
There most certainly were rules! Plus local lockdowns.

Yeah, to add to Solid’s post, we haven’t reduced the number of live contact hours in my department at all. Some people equate online contact as not equivalent to physical contact. I speak and interact with students as much as ever and also have additional office hours. Understand that some students might really not suit the online model and perhaps those are the students who might prefer deferring.

One thing that I think would be helpful is cameras on and mics on when appropriate. We encourage this a lot, but many students never do. Those that actively participate are the same ones that would be high fliers in the classroom. Camera off, mic off student who is still in bed and doesn’t even enter his breakout room would be the same student missing all the 9am lectures. It does have a bigger impact online though.

@titchy local lockdowns in September ? I thought they didn't get introduced until later in the autumn term. But even so even in areas of v low rates Unis still decided to implement rules that they made up. Government guidance on social distancing was not a necessity in most places in Sept. no one had told Unis to stop all f2f. They just (not all) decided to do it after students had signed their accommodation contracts.

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista there were no rules on that until late October. I still find it weird that I have never have had to socially distance whilst teaching. Yes Unis and schools are different but COVID isn't.[/quote]
Yes there were.
We had to social distance whole teaching.
I read those documents and met with timetabling who were pulling their hair out trying to figure out how to fit people in rooms.

[quote mumsneedwine]@titchy local lockdowns in September ? I thought they didn't get introduced until later in the autumn term. But even so even in areas of v low rates Unis still decided to implement rules that they made up. Government guidance on social distancing was not a necessity in most places in Sept. no one had told Unis to stop all f2f. They just (not all) decided to do it after students had signed their accommodation contracts. [/quote]
Where I live ( and work) we had additional restrictions in place from August. These pretty much amounted to a lockdown and added extra issues to university campuses.

@MangosteenSoda do you see how sad that is though. For you it's just teaching them, for the students their social interaction has shrunk to a few pixels on a screen. For first years it's depressing to never meet anyone on your course. To be able to chat and learn from each other, to discuss the work and plan studying together. Do you realise that if they turn their cameras on it makes their wifi slow down and they then can't hear anything (we had this problem in school). Some are in their homes which might have other children in them so their parents don't want cameras on. And some are just so depressed they can't be bothered to get up and dressed.

[quote mumsneedwine]@AllThatisSolid that was your Uni rules. As you can see from your colleagues on here other Unis they were doing things differently. Some have stated that they were doing f2f from September. Unis made their own rules up long before it became guidance.[/quote]
Universities did things differently because they are different!!
I managed to do quite a bit of f2f teaching because I have relatively small groups so we could find rooms to accommodate us while adhering to social distancing.

That was a much trickier prospect for courses with 100s of students.

@DelBocaVista we didn't. Life was pretty ok in Sept. as it was in many areas. Can guess where you are now though😊.
Not sure what rules Manchester was following when it cable tied the fire doors in the halls. Of built fences !

@Ellewoods20
The difference between schools and uni is that schools like hospitals are seen as vital frontline workers/sectord unlike unis. So rules are different between the two - not because of Covid being different but because of the social roles played by these two sectors are different.One is vital, the other isnt.

To those asking about September - in practice our uni's scientists (who are heading the SAGE) are being cautious and are assuming social distancing might come back in September hence planning for socially distanced teaching. Thats not the line the govt is currently taking but they might do come sept. So unis might very well change their approach by the start of next academic year but at the moment, they are being cautious.

Not sure what rules Manchester was following when it cable tied the fire doors in the halls. Of built fences !

That was outrageous of them I will absolutely agree with you there.

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista we didn't. Life was pretty ok in Sept. as it was in many areas. Can guess where you are now though😊.
Not sure what rules Manchester was following when it cable tied the fire doors in the halls. Of built fences ![/quote]
Lucky you. We had 3 weeks out of lockdown last year and it was shit all round.

I don't work at any of the Manchester universities so I can't speak for them.

@FHOJfinf18 I think cautious is good (wish they'd done THAT with schools). But some people on here have kept saying how the students want on line, it's better, no one has complained - and I've yet to meet a student who wants it next year in preference to f2f. We are being told it's the government telling Unis they can't open as normal in September, when, as you state, the government is saying go back to normal. So the decisions being made about keeping things on line are down to the Unis. Who need to be honest with the students about what they are planning to offer.

@FHOJfinf18 and could you please ask someone on SAGE why, if schools are frontline, we are not in any priority to get the vaccine ??

@mumsneedwine Because vaccination by age is most efficient for bringing down hospital admissions rather than occupation.Plus in the UK teachers tend to be young and therefore not a priority.

And my uni has done lots of research -a lot of our students are happynfor lectures to be online.Trust me the unis have done enough research so they do know what students are happy happy with or will out up with. Our admissions are up again this year so students are definitely not deserting top RG unis no matter what their teaching provision is like. Realistically post92 unis have been much better this past year than RG unis but if you have to take out the same level of debt what you going to pick - LSE and UCL or Central Lancashire University....???? And unis know that

@MangosteenSoda

Yeah, to add to Solid’s post, we haven’t reduced the number of live contact hours in my department at all. Some people equate online contact as not equivalent to physical contact. I speak and interact with students as much as ever and also have additional office hours. Understand that some students might really not suit the online model and perhaps those are the students who might prefer deferring.

One thing that I think would be helpful is cameras on and mics on when appropriate. We encourage this a lot, but many students never do. Those that actively participate are the same ones that would be high fliers in the classroom. Camera off, mic off student who is still in bed and doesn’t even enter his breakout room would be the same student missing all the 9am lectures. It does have a bigger impact online though.

Some of my son's Uni lecturers instructed them to turn off cameras because it over-loaded the Uni's wifi.

@mumsneedwine I do think it’s sad, but it wasn’t through choice. That’s the point. We have put a lot of effort into community building and that has paid off for some, but not all students.

Both times on campus activities were scheduled we were hit with more lockdowns or outbreaks that would have made it untenable. And even then, we were only opening for 1:1 tutorials or groups of 3 students and one tutor all at a distance. Another plan was to have a welfare drop in with 20 students at a time in a big lecture theatre and the tutor on stage. In person, but actually fairly crap.

It’s been a rock and a hard place situation with minimal government help. My uni has been mentioned . Our Covid numbers were, predictably, horrible and probably contributed to our additional local lockdowns.

@FHOJfinf18 Yeah, I guess in a big lecture that’s the case. I’m thinking more about the seminars and small group tutorials or workshops of about 30 I lead. It makes a huge difference to the dynamic. Especially in breakout rooms.

Some have stated that they were doing f2f from September.

As have I. We were teaching in person in Term 1, but not all students. For reasons which all lecturers on this thread have patiently explained to you.

Reading is your friend.

You have allowed your red mist of anger at the way you feel your DD has been mistreated to hinder your comprehension. You are generalising from one student’s experience, at second-hand, to make sweeping, inaccurate and often false accusations about all universities and all university staff.

@mumsneedwine. How many times does it have to be repeated -

we are in a global pandemic.

It’s total rubbish for everyone.

There were actual laws directing how we taught.

Universities are not schools

Online teaching was better than nothing.

Your fantasy that somehow university staff should all have broken the law to teach undergrads in the way you think they should have been taught, is just that - a fantasy. And yet you persist in this thread (god knows what untruths you spread in real life) that all universities have treated all undergraduates with contempt and have heated them.

@AllThatisSolid please read more carefully. At every point I have said not all Unis. Been v careful to state this every time so please be careful when reading. Please don't let your anger and red mist prevent you from reading better. Thank you.

And I do love the idea that teaching staff are young 😂. Over 2/3 of staff in my school are over 40. 50 of us are over 50. Not one of us has been fully vaccinated yet, and I'm CV. 579 teachers have died (apparently Boris says not one of them caught it in school). 3 of ours are still off with long COVID from last year.
If schools are deemed frontline then the workers in them should have had the same safety as others. Was v easy to vaccinate NHS, care staff and others not in age order. All we had to do was show our ID just like them, but no, apparently schools are COVID safe. Now that makes me angry.

But some people on here have kept saying how the students want on line, it's better, no one has complained

Where? Which posts?

You’re taking our discussion of the usefulness of recorded lectures completely out of context.

@AllThatisSolid please read more carefully (it's like giving feedback to year 10). I am talking about wanting changes from Sept. This one. When restrictions are lifted. Everything else is done now, can't be changed. Although sounds like some have coped a lot better than others.
Wish @DelBocaVista Uni did my DDs course - although I think Bristol have tried pretty hard to get it right.