Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

I'm hoping this year will see students looking at a wider selection of universities and they absolutely should investigate how the university has operated this last year. Some of the newer universities have really stepped up to the challenge.

Yes but the point is they are not offering online lectures they are streaming last years on campus lecture!And you are right some of them are not very good but made even worse by the fact they are catered for a live lecture audience not catering for an online audience. So basically this years students are being given regurgitated material which was produced for a different kind of audience last year . Where is the value for money here and do you not feel this worthy of complaint?

I can only fully speak for my university but we would not be allowed to get away with this. If this has happened then students should absolutely complain. I've always been very clear about that.
ALL of my lectures have been 'live'. At least 50 % were on campus between September and November and the rest have been live via Teams.

I absolutely agree @delbocavista as pointed out my DD and most of her friends are at RG universities and the level of education has been dire in many cases. My poor Dd reported she went to her first F2F lecture last week, it was at her work placement hospital which was taking place for staff and they let her tag along . I think this nicely sums up my DD’s first year at Uni!

[quote mumsneedwine]@titchy so record the lectures or live stream them 🤷‍♀️. And dial them in to tutorials and seminars. The majority of students can't wait forever for them to return.[/quote]
Yes they will be. Not sure why you'd think otherwise.

@titchy er because you mentioned international students not being back. And it has been said several times before that this is a reason to not hold things in person as it's not fair to them. That's why I said it

I'm hoping this year will see students looking at a wider selection of universities and they absolutely should investigate how the university has operated this last year.

I think you might find that you need to break it down into individual departments/schools/colleges within a university.

They don't necessarily have a common approach.

@Stirmecrazy @DelBocaVista my DD has never had a f2f lecture or tutorial or seminar. Never met any of the staff teaching her, except for anatomy where she's had a few practicals, but nothing like she should have had for the qualification she is studying for. She says she learned more in 2 weeks lambing than in an entire term of lectures on sheep. Because she was doing what she needed to do and getting hands on.
She'd love the chance to sit in the lecture theatre as promised and learn with her peers. Not via a poxy screen any more.

Downthread RampantIvy makes the point that lectures provide an important social function. If you are studying arts or humanities lectures are a good old chunk of your contact time. Recorded lectures are great but they should take place live too, even if numbers attending are restricted.

My daughter is at Newcastle studying History, first year. Until this week she had met no one but her flatmates. Security has been super tight (security guys walking into her flat at 2 in the morning to check for subterfuge!). She is miserable and disappointed. I've just come off the phone with her in tears, again. I am very worried about her. She doesn't know how to get help and she is embarrassed to ask.

Universities need to be transparent, now, about next year. They have been super cautious and could have done more this term. My daughters course has had no f2f teaching at all and will have nine his academic year. Why no small group teaching for all courses after May 17th?

DC2 is hoping to go to Uni in September. Without assurances that there will be a significant amount f2f teaching I will discourage her from going.

Full disclosure I am an admin manager at another RG Uni.and if you think students aren't customers take a look at any uni's complaints procedure.

My son who has not had a single face to face anything this year but thankfully if post grad and finished his degree last summer, was saying how much just getting to a lecture, chatting to people outside the hall before and after was part of the process too which you don't get on screen at all.

@changi

I'm hoping this year will see students looking at a wider selection of universities and they absolutely should investigate how the university has operated this last year.

I think you might find that you need to break it down into individual departments/schools/colleges within a university.

They don't necessarily have a common approach.

And Uni's may not be honest about what they've done this past year. Prospective students would be better trying to get on the various student group Facebook/Twitter pages for "real" experiences of students rather the Uni's sanitised version of how things have gone!

I agree @kazzyhoward some unis/faculties have performed brilliantly and some abysmally and both need to be vocalised The only control over this situation that students have got is their voice and social media (and the complaints procedure at Uni ). I will be encouraging DD and her friends to do just this as well as utilising web forums like student room to air their experiences . New students are starting in September they need to get a true picture of what unis have provided this year so they can make an informed decision of what could happen and how supportive they have been or could be if lockdowns return. I wish we had had this insight it may have changed my DD’s decision. It also may give some leverage for the poorer performing unis to up their game if there is too much bad publicity.

Prospective students would be better trying to get on the various student group Facebook/Twitter pages for "real" experiences of students rather the Uni's sanitised version of how things have gone!

And The Student Room

I'm so sorry your daughter is having an awful time @NotNowFGS. DD is also at Newcastle and I have had her on the phone in tears a few times recently. She is in year 2, and in her case the volume of work has been overwhelming. She is getting far more lectures online than if they had been delivered F2F. We are going to visit her tomorrow and take her out for lunch.

@RampantIvy

I suspect that OU courses are going to increase now.

Possibly, but they are just as expensive as face to face uni, except that you pay module by module, so it's not as much in one go.

@Stirmecrazy that is completely appalling, just reusing last year's lectures! No one in my department is doing that, I have not heard of any others doing it either.

It is possible the department lost a number of staff to covid or related issues -- staffs have been cut to the bone in recent years so it's not always possible to cover for missing staff, so losing even a handful of staff can have a big impact. And it's not like the NHS or teaching where there are bank staff. But if this is happening at lots of universities then it's likely to be something else.

@dreamingbohemian. I know I only found out today it has blown my mind. I always assumed that lecturers were at least recording new material . It’s quite shocking and let’s not forget the ones which are now just sending PDF’s and not even doing lectures! She even showed me one so it’s definately true. Anyone want to know which uni feel free to PM me I can also tell you one other uni which is doing this (and one which isn’t) I will grill all DD’s other friends subsequently and add to my list. I have written my letter of complaint to Michelle (via DD)

@dreamingbohemian just pondering on what you said what would unis normally do for staff losses . Lectures would still need to be delivered surely . There must be policy for this I can’t see this an excuse for reusing lectures and like you said I have found one other example today (out of 2 of DD’s friends, the other was getting fresh lectures so I know it is dependent on uni ) I will keep digging and let you know how many other unis this is happening in. It is a massive injustice to this years students they deserve at least lectures designed for online viewing as a base level.

Agreed with PP about the quality of some online lectures. My son (who is dyslexic) has massively struggled with following them online, ends up pausing them frequently, and has been behind, as a result, from week 1. The very poor sound quality and/or poor delivery doesn't help. If everything is still online in October he will certainly drop out.

Kazzy that is what we have been doing. Some students of the course for 2020/21 which my sons start in September have recorded a few youtube videos about the course. It is the only way to find out what happened this year in order to make an informed guess about what will happen in 2021/22 as the course provider does not say. Eg they shut their London campus for a bit in term time for "essential repairs" for London students paying about £4k a year more than students at their places out of London. They did have somewhere else available but you have to book etc. and it was not the same. Same course in and out of London, much higher fee in part because you want the London experience, meeting other London students etc... but of course that element has been absent this year but no reduction of fee by £4k, no £4k refund etc.

However who knows what September will be like. Will everyone have to go in or will no one have to? Will the exams be online in January 2022 or not. People need to know particularly about style of exams months ahead so they can plan accordingly, not suddenly told in December the exams are completely different from what is expected.

The very poor sound quality and/or poor delivery doesn't help. If everything is still online in October he will certainly drop out

One of the lecturers on DD's course is French and has a very strong and difficult to understand French accent. Several students (including DD) deliberately did not choose his module this year because his lectures are so difficult to follow. If they had subtitles on I'm sure this would not have happened.

IMO all online lectures should have subtitles.

Lectures were already online, they have been recorded for years and some students didn't go in person (some busy researchers recorded theirs before term started!) Seminars are in person though

I always assumed that lecturers were at least recording new material
Stirmecrazy do you mean fresh content or a new recording of the same lecture?
Most material taught to undergraduates is pretty basic and only needs updating if there is new published research or feedback that the slides and delivery are difficult to follow.

IMO all online lectures should have subtitles.

I have attended some live lectures that could have done with subtitles.

We have to provide a transcript. Adding subtitles is an extremely laborious process unless you rely on the auto-generated type, which don't work particularly well if the speaker is heavily accented.

I’m sure we have to have subtitles. That’s why it’s easier to record in advance, use the auto-generated subtitles and do a bit of editing if necessary.

In fact, we have lots of guidelines to follow to make online content as accessible as possible including making sure all documents/content can be accessed by visually impaired students.

@sendsummer. I guess I mean new recording . The one my Dd showed me as typical was a live on campus lecture recorded last year so you get all the audience noise and then half way through break away group activities which are not applicable if you are watching it yourself
Ultimately the lecturer must have had that slot allocated in his work timetable so I was expecting to see an online designed version which was easier to watch and appropriate to a online audience why wouldn’t it be produced . It is the main criticism by my Dd of online learning that these are so difficult to watch. This year has had it so tough I am devastated to see they are not even getting medium appropriate learning material .

@minniemomo

Lectures were already online, they have been recorded for years and some students didn't go in person (some busy researchers recorded theirs before term started!) Seminars are in person though

It depends on the university though. We never did online lectures as standard ( unless the course had been validated that way)

Staff and students are expected to be present for all timetabled sessions.

We have recorded all our on campus lectures for years though. I used one of these once this year and only because my Teams recording failed. Those that attended got the live version. Those that didn't turn up had to catch up using last years lecture but at least they had something.