Another Path - part IV

[321zyx]

Apologies if I've done this wrong! I seemed to have filled up the last thread, hopefully the abbreviated title is ok!

DD feels the same about the A level results not being taken seriously. We've already had relatives with DC a couple of years older complaining about how much easier it is for this year's cohort to get into top flight universities. You want to try explaining that to the poor sods who've already missed out because there weren't as many offers to give this year?

Ignore anyone saying exams will not be taken seriously. In a few years time no one will remember which year got what results. Years ago we were told that old style exams wouldn't be taken seriously when new ones came in. Now I'd be hard pushed to tell you what year that was !
It will be fine in the end. And anyone who thinks this years lot have it 'easy' deserves a punch. A v v hard punch.

Hi everyone. We’re in Durham since yesterday and it’s been sunny which helps! DS taking it all in. The town is smaller than I thought, but it does have lots of character - and cafes! We had an impromptu tour round the back gardens of St John’s which are really gorgeous and wind down to the river. Very green and tranquil here. The interior of the college is a bit scruffy, but DS doesn’t notice things like that. They do however, have a modern accommodation block in the back gardens which is all en-suite! The main campus is a bit further out the town than I thought, but it’s fine. The area round the castle and cathedral is very beautiful. There are students around but it’s not busy - I think a lot must be at home.

So the big question is ...... is he swayed towards Durham?

Also how was the journey? Do you think you could go there and back in one day or an overnight stay is essential?

quest1on I'm just wondering if you've gone the road way from town to the Science Site/ 'main campus', because if you cross Prebends Bridge just down at the end of the Bailey and turn left once you're over the bridge, it feels a great deal closer. It's also a much prettier walk. It's left after the bridge, along the road a short way and the Science Site/ Bill Bryson Library/ Law Faculty are on your right.

Apologies if that's the way you went :)

Yes I think that was the way we went GS and coming back we went off the road and followed the river round the other way. Beautiful forest. To be honest, it’s probably not that far and it’s just me moaning. We’d already walked from the station via the Radisson hotel at this point. Probably if you were just starting from St John’s etc it’s not far at all and obviously students are not 48!

The journey was fine. It’s about 2 hours to York direct. Then three stops to Durham, so all in all about 3 hours.

Yes chopc, I think he likes it now. He’s even bumped into 2 people he knows from Putney who are here

It's 0.6 miles from John's to the library, apparently. 13 minutes. And I defy many students in any other uni to have a more scenic walk, college to department! I think you're right that it probably felt much longer given all the earlier walking on tarmac and cobbles.

@quest1on glad you’ve had a good trip to Durham, it sounds beautiful!

@quest1on, great that you managed to see inside the college, around the gardens and so on. Hope you enjoyed the rest of your visit.

Wasn’t sure whether to make another thread or not but figured it was somewhat relevant. Sorry for how long this is but I really need advice and want to provide full context. DD applied for Law. Was predicted close to full marks for the IB, very good reference and personal statement in my biased opinion, got 30+ on the LNAT (average this year was 20) and according to the feedback narrowly missed out on a place at Oxford. She got two very early offers from her 4th and 5th choices and after that felt quite confident in her 2nd and 3rd choices as she felt that she had a strong application. I won’t say what the unis are as I don’t want to out myself but essentially everything went downhill from there. DD applied in September - Choice 3 put DD on hold for 5 months and eventually let her know that she had been rejected in early April. We thought this was really weird as DD had a strong application and several students from her school had offers from them with lower grades so her HE Counsellor wrote an email requesting feedback from the uni and they responded around a week later saying that they’d made a mistake and forgotten to enter DD’s admissions test score and so she’d been rejected due to a clerical error. In the meantime, DD had firmed Choice 2 and insured Choice 4 based on her remaining choices because she’d fairly assumed that she’d been rejected from Choice 3. When they replied back, they offered to reconsider her application if she was still interested but then sent another email a day later to say that the firming/insurance decision is irreversible and the only way to obtain an offer was to go through UCAS Extra which would mean rejecting her very generous insurance offer for potentially quite a risky offer, although they stated that they didn’t actually have any more places for that course left anyway .

DD didn’t mind that much as she was super keen on Choice 2 (which, given that she applied to Oxbridge, was realistically first choice anyway). We’re abroad but have a bit of a complex situation regarding fee status. Choice 2 is the only one of her unis asking for international fees rather than home fees (which we’ve been given by her insurance choice). We appealed the decision and heard nothing back for 2 months (despite being told she’d get a response within 10 days), DD then had to send a follow up email before they replied saying no. We then appealed again and sent folders and folders of evidence proving our ‘ordinary residence’ status but based on their contradictory comments in the email they sent back, I do feel as if they barely read any of the information we’d provided. All of this correspondence happened in the middle of DD’s IB exams (most IB students still had to sit normal exams this year) so she was extremely stressed and upset. So now we’re in a situation where I’m not sure what to do because we absolutely cannot afford international fees and Choice 2 doesn’t offer any international scholarships or financial aid. I’m a single parent working on a temporary contract abroad (wasn’t able to move back to the UK while DD was at school for all sorts of reasons related to potential earnings, job opportunities, DD’s school bursary, finances and DD’s dad so we were sort of trapped here) but all of our family are in the UK so the only realistic option for DD is to return home to the UK for uni. DD can’t go to uni here (even though there are some great unis) as she doesn’t speak the local language and it’s a very politically volatile country that she’s keen on getting out of. She also doesn’t have a passport for this country despite being here a long time as she’d have to renounce her British nationality which means she’s not eligible for most government-funded scholarships for those in this country looking to study internationally. DD is really not keen on her insurance choice at all now even though it’s a lovely university which has given her a very nice offer. She doesn’t like the course and is convinced she’ll be miserable there as she’ll feel like she’s “settling”. She’s extremely stressed as she knows we can’t afford international fees (though we probably could if her dad would contribute) but also knows home fees are still very expensive and feels as if I’ll be wasting 9000 pounds if she doesn’t enjoy her insurance choice while she’s adamant she would absolutely love her firm choice. She now feels like she might need to take a gap year and wants to reapply to Oxbridge but aside from worrying about dealing with the fallout of being rejected for a second time, a gap year isn’t really financially feasible for us. She’s been so excited about going to uni and now feels extremely depressed. She’s just graduated and feels as if everyone is excited to go off to uni and she still has absolutely no idea where she’s going in 4 months time. She wants to wait till July to see how she’s done in her exams and then consider her options but I’m worried that’s leaving it too late. DD suggested we call up her firm choice and explain the full situation rather than email again but I’m not sure it will make any difference and don’t want to get her hopes up. Any advice?

@mangoguava - I understand the difficulties and the dilemmas. However in your position your DD needs to go with the options available to her. It is either to go for the Uni which has given her the home status or else once she has her results she can try and go to another Uni via clearing.

Something else to keep in mind is that she doesn't have to do a law degree to be a lawyer so if through clearing there are other subject options open to her through clearing, that is also an option.

It's a difficult situation to be in but DD may really need to realise that there really is "another path" other than the one she envisaged for herself.

Hope this helps

PS just goes to show what a crazy year this has been to get rejected from non interviewing Unis with a LNAT score of 30!

@mangoguava. I'm sorry to hear of your daughter's dilemma. When it comes to clearing, IB students are at a distinct advantage each year (and this year is no different) as she will get her results several weeks before A level students. IB students can do very well out of clearing.

I have heard that too. But how come @MidLifeCrisis007 ? I thought clearing only opens once AL results are out? Or is that incorrect?

@chopc

I have heard that too. But how come *@MidLifeCrisis007* ? I thought clearing only opens once AL results are out? Or is that incorrect?

AFAIK clearing opens 5th July. The same day as IB results come out.

www.ucas.com/events/2021-entry-clearing-opens-372086

Mango it is hard to decide without knowing the choices. I am a lawyer as are my daughters (and my sons who graduated last year hopefully are on the way to being so). She sounds very bright so I do wonder if another go at Oxbridge next year with perhaps a better chance of the other 4 options too and with the experience of all those complications of the international application sorted out a bit better might be good.

For me it would depend on what those choices are. it is weird the choice 2 is the only one taking a different stance on international fees. I would certainly call them up and also ask why the difference from the other 4 when your situation is identical.

If not then her plan to wait until IB results in July might be wise as if she did really well Oxbridge attempt 2 might be worth it if option 2 is still being difficult over fees. The other issue is check divorce consent order if you were married. Ours says I pay all university costs not their father (I earn a lot more) and it may be your ex is obliged to pay. Second point on that is I think there may be some right for the child to claim from the non resident parent for university - might be worth checking with your divorce lawyer on that as it different from usual position of married parents where none is obliged even to make ujp the minimum loan to the maximum.

If option 4 is a good university then may be simpler just to pick it. Eg my son had his first and back up choices with the same grade requirements (foolish boy)as he was so sure he would get the results needed (he did) and almost any of his 4 (he didn't try Oxbridge) would have been equally good for law firms. He went to Bristol and is still in the city this year for law post grad.

What's go say Oxford will offer home status though?

This is a really tricky one mangoguava. Xenia gives very good advice on seeing whether the Dad can be required to pay but the whole process of enforcement would be very unpleasant and stressful for your DD. We too have lots of lawyers in the current generation (I was a lawyer and three of my DC are lawyers, two City lawyers (one converted to Human Rights) and a barrister). My instinct is to say that with a strong LNAT score, if - quite big if - her IB is good in July - she should re-apply in July.

The point about not needing to do Law as a degree is pretty weak if an applicant actively wants to read Law as an academic degree. A lot of those who are neither lawyers not read Law as a degree say this, without understanding what a Law degree offers.

Sorry, re-apply in September is what I meant to write. It sounds as though she was close for Oxford and so given the mess, I'd have thought a second shot would be worth considering for sure.

Did the previous posters not pick up the bit about mum not being able to afford the international fees and a gap year may not be feasible? So this is not a straightforward advise about which Uni is best

For what it's worth my DH is a lawyer who didn't read law. Law is perhaps more competitive than other subjects and more difficult to get a place through clearing which is why I suggested she could try for other subjects if she likes the university

Yes, I think it depends on the IB results and how very good she has done as to whether Oxbridge is worth another go. I agree if there is no way she could get a job abroad where she lives for the gap year then it may be too expensive for the mother for her not to go this year although I suspect a gap year working in a UK cafe might be feasible ( we are short of some workers in the UK at present). I also agree that I had assumed it was only the one place that said international fees and that possibly Oxbridge would take the same view? Definitely worth checking out.

My daughters (and the twins who hope to be lawyers) did not read law but I did. I am quite neutral on what lawyers do and 50% do and 50% don't. I did like my law degree very much but I agree it is harder to get into university to read law than other subjects. If you want to do it and are bright as this girl seems to be then it is a good choice.

Yes of course chopc. But you are simply assuming that Oxford will demand international fees when it may well not, given time for a case to be put, and b) on the time point, an extra year gives time generally to make the case. Your position of it is what it is is somewhat defeatist. As indeed is the idea that those who want to practice law should seek the least competitive route.

And I would say that since your DH didn't read Law chopc, he may not be fully aware of what he missed. I'm speaking from direct experience.