Another Path - part IV

[321zyx]

Apologies if I've done this wrong! I seemed to have filled up the last thread, hopefully the abbreviated title is ok!

Anyone else engrossed in the Young Musician of The Year final right now? I'm so enjoying this young lad from Oxford on his oboe.... but we are a family with 3 oboe players (DS1, DD and I) so I may be a bit biased!

Absolutely longtime- it's a nightmare here as have DD in her GCSE year also!

Sadly needmoresleep it's the snooker final on here - hence I am on Mumsnet

You did it AGAIN @Pumpkintopf!!!!

#MistakenIdentity! #GoldfishBrain

@MidLifeCrisis007 I loved the percussionist. Was that a xylophone or a glockenspiel?

@MidLifeCrisis007 the medicine application process does feel daunting for sure. This year has been particularly tough and next year is looking that way too but it is certainly not all doom and gloom. My DS has ended up with four Medicine offers this year and we have heard of others with similar successful outcomes. All his school friends who applied for Med have had at least two offers. If I had one piece of advice it would be to ace the UCAT/BMAT as that opens up so many options. Good Luck to your DD.

@opoponax mixed bag of medical school offers here. 7 applied - 3 got no offers, 2 got 2 offers and 2 got 1. Pretty depressing statistics, but seems to be the result of the perfect storm of bad circumstances for this year's cohort.

I think DD said that about 1/3 of those who applied for medicine at her school failed to get any offers - including the academic star of the whole year group.

Congrats to your DS @opoponax! What's the secret of his success?!

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Checking in. Thanks for the new thread.

@Milllylovespuddles I'm really sorry to hear that, especially for the 3 DC having to go through it all again next year. This is why I get so cross about the current A Level situation. I'm just talking about DS's own friendship group of about 10 DC. There could be others in his cohort for whom it hasn't gone so well.

@MidLifeCrisis007 I think the strong academics only take you so far. A top UCAT/BMAT backed with strong academics and applying strategically can secure four interviews but the clock then generally sets to zero and it's ALL about the interview and we all know the vagaries of those. I would say it helps to prepare a lot for the interviews but not to be too formulaic as you must be natural. However, that said, I think like any of these processes, luck plays its part too. I've heard a number of anecdotes about strong candidate getting four interviews and then going on to get either four or zero offers.

@MidLifeCrisis007 oh my goodness I am so sorry!! Clearly have needmoresleep on the brain (what's left of it!!) 🤦🏼‍♀️

Yes. Most do the reset to zero and then it comes down to interviews. That is why research is required. UEA for example only attaches 50% on interviews rather than 100%.

@SeasonFinale yes absolutely agree, the research is definitely key. I think one of the downsides of the process is that the interviews are all done in a vacuum and there is the potential for DC to repeat the same mistakes in all four interviews as feedback only comes at the very end of the process. So you do four interviews with the same broad strategy and if that strategy works, great but if not, it possibly hasn't worked four times. Anyway, I don't want to hijack this other paths thread so I'll duck out now but @MidLifeCrisis I'll probably see you over on this year's medics thread. I have a DD who wants to apply for med in 2022 so will be hovering there to share any experience and keep in the loop. Good luck to all the DC on here with their assessments and taking up their Uni places.

My sons' friend (son of a dentist) was keen to do dentistry but did not get in in UK so has been studying abroad for last 3 years (I think in Spain) - I was thinking of that when I read about the medicine people on this thread. It can be an option for some people even despite Brexit.

I don't understand what is meant by research being the key to interview performance. And repeating the same mistake four times ....... doesn't responses depend on the questions asked or do interviews these days take a standard format?

@chopc it's more that research is key to strategic application and maximising your odds. If you have 10 9s at GSCE, all A star predicted A levels, a top ranking UCAT/ BMAT, great volunteering experience and are confident that you can ace your interviews then it's pretty much wide open where you apply but even then you can still look at interview to offer ratios etc. Different med schools place different weightings on different elements, for example Bristol and Newcastle are very UCAT heavy so if you have an outstanding UCAT, they are safe bets to get selected for an interview. Keele is very work experience focused so if that's your stand-out strength, apply there. For Exeter this year you needed a top 3% in the UK UCAT score as well as 3 A star predictions for A level just to secure an interview. They are all different and as @SeasonFinale rightly said UEA med school only counts the interview as 50% of your final score so if you are a bit nervous about your interview performance and confident in your stats, that's a good one to go for. It is very complex and you just have to go through each med school and consider exactly how they weight it and how you measure up. The other consideration is that the course structure can be very different between med schools, so you have to look at that quite closely and see what appeals to you as some have earlier clinical content than others for example. The research is very useful for interviews too though as the interviewers like you to know about the med school you are applying to. The interviews in themselves are all different and this year have been mainly panel interviews although some have still tried to do Multiple Mini Interview format over zoom. The questions are all hugely different but they are generally trying to assess your suitability for medicine at a character level (empathy, rational thinking, ethics, communication etc.) The interview is not really about whether you are clever enough as your stats have already told them that. So, whilst you can't (and shouldn't try to) prepare for individual questions, you can do a lot of self-reflection and think about real life examples to illustrate those general qualities and that lends itself to a wide range of questions. A lot of questions do require just responding on your feet to what you happen to be asked on the day though so although practice is great too much formulaic preparation can actually work against you if you come over too automated or are thrown by what you planned for not coming up. Sorry for the essay, it's complicated!

Thanks for that @opoponax ......... at the moment none of my kids seem to want to go into medicine. Let's see if they change their mind

@opoponax can I borrow that please - outlines the process perfectly 😊

@mumsneedwine of course - I think most of it probably came from you in the first place anyway!

And one (possibly Sheffield but don't hold me to that) uses the UCAT score as one of the MMIs. Also Sheffield will question you on why you specifically want to study there as in the city. So if you had not ascertained that ie. researched you could well come unstuck.

@SeasonFinale Sheffield use the SJT as one station, so get full marks if get a 1. They give station questions in advance. V v open about how they shortlist.
@opoponax 😊😊 strategic applying works. Well done to DS.

Thank you @mumsneedwine.

I'd forgotten that they got the questions in advance with Sheffield and also got full marks on the SJT station if they had a band one in the UCAT. However, it's also worth noting that with Sheffield, I believe, if you fail any of the MMI stations, even if you have been excellent in the others, you are out. I guess another general noteworthy point is for the Scottish med schools, if you are applying from outside Scotland, be careful of the RUK caps on numbers. I think Dundee was something like 15 places in total available for English applicants this year.

Yes the Scottish caps are whole other ball game and we are seeing this spill over into other competitive courses. As well as the RUK cap there are also specific widening participation numbers as well which further narrows the number down for some applicants. Luckily they do publish these.

Applying strategically is, of course, important - but this year many many students did exactly this and still got no offers. And these are very bright, motivated and strategically-minded applicants.

There was no way of anticipating the huge changes in interview cut-offs and competition for places. That's before you even consider how zoom calls may have affected performance.

I realise that I am a very fortunate parent who has a child with an offer, but I have heard time and time again how top-fliers and dead certs failed to get an offer. We are now into May and some applicants are still praying for an offer from their dwindling options, whilst dealing with nationwide pot-luck in exams.

I, like most other parents, have found the whole process extremely stressful and worrying on so many fronts. There surely has to be a fairer approach that keeps our youngsters at the forefront of this chaos.

I know everyone will say it's the system, it's just the year it is, it's beyond anyone's control... but as a parent, I am cross and disillusioned, but mostly I feel so so sad for this year's cohort who have had to deal with it.

Thing is medicine has always been an extremely competitive course and the students who apply are usually very bright and at the top of the game. Like with Oxbridge the medical school admissions team don't always get it right either. Hopefully, just like I believe there is another path to the same destination for the Oxbridge rejects, I believe if someone is determined enough and is meant to be a doctor, they will somehow make it. Either through reapplication or through the graduate medicine way although I know this is more competitive than undergraduate.