Another Path - part IV

[321zyx]

Apologies if I've done this wrong! I seemed to have filled up the last thread, hopefully the abbreviated title is ok!

Since not even all Oxbridge graduates even with firsts get 'fantastic jobs in field they want' I suspect you may be generalising wildly from the particular mumsneedwine.

Also, kids down here in certain schools are regularly failed by those schools. Some then realise that they just don't see themselves at the uni that the school pushed in their direction and work three jobs eg one boy I know is currently working in one of the hotels, at the cinema and at a newsagents. Another is putting in twelve hour shifts at our local pub. I'm also surprised at the 'can't afford it' line. With energy and application it isn't hard to fund yourself through a gap year. It might be, I agree, if you're a sloth.

They can @mumsneedwine. They can claim the standard allowance element of universal credit at 18 years old if living in a parental home. Its currently £344 per month ( due to temporary coronavirus uplift) due to go down to £257 in October when the uplift ends.

@goodbyestranger what's he doing at the cinema ? They've been closed for months. As have most hotels. Surely he's been furloughed ?

And pubs only just reopened too so he can't have much savings from those jobs as they've all been shut.

A lot of parents do not realise their teen can claim benefits for themselves even whilst living at home.
Just incase anyone needs this.
www.gov.uk/universal-credit/eligibility

@Longtimenewsee I wish that was the reality. In some cases they will get about £126 a month, but most have not got anything at all. And it can take 3-4 months to process the claim in which time they get nothing. Most still end up with nothing as parents are in social housing or get housing benefit and earn themselves, all of which is factored in. Believe me our post 18 advisor knows every trick and manages to get some funding from charities. It's tough though, especially in last 18 months.
Love the ideas for jobs from those lovely middle class areas. Where my lot live there are not many opportunities such as cinemas and nice hotels. They'd need to travel for those which costs money - they lose the free travel once leave school. Many have jobs in but they don't pay enough to feed or save to go travelling this year. Love the idea of using savings. These kids give any spare cash to their parents to feed them, not put into a little slush fund.

Off to mark. Just wanted to show that gap years are not always the right move. And students will have a fantastic time and get a great job from those 'lesser' Unis. Good luck to everyone with assessments- can't call them exams 🤷‍♀️

We’ll have to disagree here @mumsneedwine. That figure you gave is not my experience. I don’t want to say much more without outing myself but I strongly suggest that if anyone here needs to look into benefits for their dc , they do so.

mumsneedwine the two specific kids I'm talking about are probably from even more disadvantaged backgrounds than the kids that you talk about regularly. There is a great deal of coastal and rural poverty in our area, but you clearly aren't aware, given your immediate (I have to say rather shallow) assumptions.

They've been renovating the pub and the hotel mumsneedwine and the newsagents has been open. Quite right about furlough from the cinema job but it's not especially relevant to the general point.

Interesting debate.
DD had made the decision, very soon after applying, that, had she not had offers from her 3 preferred unis, she would reapply next year. I think she should have not completed all 5 options so early but I had no idea that was a possibility and nor did she. Several of her peers at school are doing this instead of accepting the offers that they have (they're waiting for clearing first but obviously there are no guarantees from that).
Having been doing research into WP areas I have been shocked to realise that the areas I perceive as "poor" locally don't meet any WP criteria (geographically; obviously individuals still might). The gap between North and South is still very stark.
Having said that, I'm surprised at people being unable to get any jobs at all. Both my children have worked every summer since they were 15 and last year when jobs were trickier to come by, my ds got a job as a labourer for a local builder whose normal employees had returned to their countries of origin to ride out covid.
I appreciate unemployment rates are higher in some areas but there usually seems to be low paid work for those who don't have qualifications which students could do in holidays or gap years.

Travelling abroad costs money and is a middle class aspiration. Lots of my students don't own a passport, have no contacts abroad to help them find jobs, and lots of the ski season places only seem to want nice middle class white kids.

If kids in Hampshire start off with this many chips on their shoulder they are in trouble,. I recognise, from your posts, that you teach in one of the most deprived parts of the country. However if your pupils are to climb out of the endemic poverty in Southern England they need to be encouraged. I know ski seasons are largely off the cards, but what makes you think it is middle class white kids, given say, catering colleges send kids on work experience and many kids use working overseas as a chance to get away from home because they are not going to University.

It sounds as if the school is skimping on providing careers advice, and is instead shuttling kids off to University as soon as they can. Top courses are competitive. There is an element of luck and performance on the day. It is often worth aiming high.

Though unemployment may be high (and I take your word for this) it is not in nearby Dorset, where residential jobs are readily available in both hospitality and care sectors, more so than ever post Brexit. You don't need a passport.

And FWIW DD found work abroad on her own and without family contacts, using UK based recruitment. if you are telling me that A* pupils in Hampshire are not capable of either applying for a passport or applying for jobs, the issue is deeper than I had realised.

As far as making a choice of uni, DD decided to go for 4 aspirational/top unis. She would have regretted it not giving it a go. Her 5th choice was more because of lack of "inspirational/top" unis she liked (did not want Durham) or offered her course.
In a normal year I don't think a gap year is a bad idea and should be doable money wise for most, but this year I think is more difficult

I don't really understand the mismatch between Medicine and other subjects.

Many posters advise being tactical with medicine and accepting that a reapplication might be needed. However challenging STEM/economics/law/etc courses are just as competitive, with the odds of being accepted for any one place your apply being as low, if not lower. If that is what you want, be tactical and accept that a reapplication might be needed.

I don't think finding gap year employment will be as hard this year as in previous years, other than presumably when MNW teaches. Brexit, and the stop to free movement of labour from Europe, has caused real labour shortages in some sectors.

Travel will be (a lot) harder, but that is not something the kids MNW teaches, aspire to.

I think the biggest difference re medicine is that every medical school gives you the same degree and there is no advantage to going to one medical school over another. (This is very different from how it used to be. But nowadays you literally don't put your medical school on any application until you're applying for consultant/GP at which point no one cares at all - in fact they are so desperate to get the applications they wouldn't even look).
Whereas it genuinely probably does make a difference to a future career whether someone does maths at LSE or Hertfordshire (plucking completely out of the air and not trying to be derogatory) or psychology at Exeter or Middlesex (ditto).

In fact, given the fact that foundation places are determined based on decile placement within their medical school, there is a definite life advantage to being at a medical school where you're top of a cohort of slightly lower ability rather than average in a very high achieving cohort. (Given that they're all pretty much A/A* candidates, it's hard to determine where this might be though).

I agree with PP who said it was easier last year for DC to get into Oxbridge than this year.

The next 3 years of intakes will all have been directly affected by Covid in terms of lost schooling and how GCSEs and A Levels are assessed. There’s likely to be inequity at play for various factors including how your school handled the current assessments.

We don’t know yet how affected universities will be in terms of international students or blended learning.

Those thinking of taking a gap year if they don’t meet their preferred offers will have no choice but to consider the current working and travel restrictions. Getting a job in a bar or restaurant for one common student example example to pay your way is going to be much harder.

Previous norms or experiences will not fully apply.

Stormer our local hotels and pubs, of which there are many, have been staffed overwhelmingly by Europeans for the past seventeen years. And a huge number of those have now disappeared back to their original country, or at least other ones which are more welcoming and less xenophobic than England. Jobs of that sort down here are ten a penny.

We do know actually that international applications are up.

mumsneedwine your assumptions about other people are extraordinary. One of these impressive young people is a boy who certainly pays his mother for food and other bills, even though she's reluctant to take it. I know her well. You do not possess a monopoly of difficult situations up there in your own leafy county; deprivation is unfortunately fairly widespread.

www.ucas.com/data-and-analysis/undergraduate-statistics-and-reports/ucas-undergraduate-releases/applicant-releases-2021/2021-cycle-applicant-figures-january-deadline

There are even new style jobs in many places such as Deliveroo or UberEats and even this year there have been gap year opportunities if they do their research properly.

As someone else pointed out this is a thread where generally we are talking about highachieiving kids and one would hope they had the nouse to sort either a job or gap opportunities out if anyone can.

I heard the same on the local news yesterday. Many London pubs and restaurants will struggle to open next week due to a shortage of staff.

DS has been lucky on his gap year as he secured a job at his old Prep school (mostly working with the reception kids, and then supervising the key worker kids during lockdown). He loved it and particularly enjoyed the weekly trip to Forest School with them. He earned the minimum wage for his 6 month stint there. But he's now working at a pub where he's earning more than the minimum wage AND tips (Happy days!). The latter job has been really good for him as he's talking to customers lots, working hard, but also understanding from his fellow workers how hard it can be to earn a living in London. Of the 15+ of them, only one other is a Gap year student. Many are doing it because they need the cash as their preferred careers (mostly in the arts) aren't able to provide that at present. He's done the odd 12 hour shift, but mostly it's 7-9 hours, and with a couple of days off a week. I think the pub wants charming staff serving customers, not exhausted ones! He cycles there and back (not much fun in the recent persistent rain). Thankfully the pub has a huge undercover garden so he's dry at work.

As a result of his experience working with kids, he found it easy to get a job offer abroad working in the kids club of a beach resort. It remains to be seen though whether that resort will open this Summer! Failing that, he could cycle round Portugal, or head off to Costa Rica on a volunteering program like 90% of Gap Year students have done this year.

Many of DS's mates have been working in their local Covid testing centres. They pay really well!

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/may/15/uk-top-universities-fearful-of-extra-student-numbers-if-grades-stay-high?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Some background to the approach used by Universities this year.