To think universities should state separate entry criteria for Indies?

[Wacamole]

DD who is on track for 3A*s at A’level, thought she’d give Oxbridge a go after being encouraged by her teachers. All very excited, doing super curriculars etc. Only just been told she doesn’t meet minimum entry criteria that would be expected from an Indy, which is straight 9s. She doesn’t have straight 9s, she has straight 8s (couple of nines), not only that, the course she wanted to apply for at Cambridge doesn’t require Maths at all, but school has advised they won’t even look at her if she doesn’t do Maths AND Further Maths. She is doing neither. Apparently an EPQ is also mandatory even though none of this is mentioned on Cambridge website.

All this second guessing, reading between the lines has been really confusing.
I have no issue with universities asking for higher entry criteria for students from indies for obvious reasons but wish they would be more transparent and state this on their ‘Entry requirements’ same way they state contextual offers?

@mumsneedwine. Teachers should add value, not make excuses, especially if they work in a state school.

If you worked in a private school, you would not be accepting a 6 as a "high" grade.

@goodbyestranger it's great you are helping students who qualify for outreach. The link colleges have been an inspired idea and helping so many students. Do you go to the conferences ? I love a nice day out from school 😊

@CinnamonJellyBeans who said I accept it as a high grade ??? Our school accept it for A level admission because we know we can add value and get those students to achieve a B or higher. Maybe your private school can only cope with teaching A level to the brightest - we teach to anyone we think deserves a chance.

mumsneedwine stop being so pushy. If I don't give you specifics, that's my prerogative. Given that we've crossed swords on several occasions I'm hardly likely to either.

CJB there are some abysmally bad teachers teaching in both sectors, sadly.

there are some abysmally bad teachers teaching in both sectors, sadly.

Not to mention the fact that not all parents looking for private education for their offspring are after somewhere admitting purely on high academic ability, nor do all indies do so. There are DC in both sectors for whom a clutch of 5s and 6s would be a better than expected outcome.

@goodbyestranger I was praising you ! Sorry if I offended by saying you sound like you're doing a good thing by helping with outreach. Really did mean it as a compliment
A bad teacher does not take a 6 student to an A grade at A level. That's a good teacher. The 6 at GCSE could be for many reasons. Maturity, family circumstance, self esteem, peer pressure, lack of ambition and yes bad teaching. Students change massively from 16-18 and no one should be written off as less than 'a trained monkey'.

You're making assumptions mumsneedwine and possibly being a teensy bit patronising. I think on MN one doesn't have to be too specific about anything identifiable if one prefers not to. So phrasing the same question in lots of different ways won't get you much further. At the end of the day, I tend not to take prisoners :)

@goodbyestranger I now have no idea what you're going on about 😂. You know about outreach so it must be because you help students - otherwise you wouldn't know as most of the info is only provided to schools. So you must be doing a good thing in helping.
That's all I'm saying. How the hell is that patronising ??? I do think you look for offence where none is intended from me. Was genuinely thinking you were doing a great thing helping students who need it, why else would you be interested since all
your kids have been or are at Oxbridge?

Anyway enough now. Pointless. @Wacamole good luck with the application.

Ok. I’m glad someone is doing outreach!

I would like to think DDs old school learnt a very big lesson. Don’t judge a book by its cover! There’s no such thing as a typical Oxbridge candidate at the margins. Someone who can work things out and interviews well by having a discussion with the interviewers might do well. Even if they don’t know everything before they go in. Maybe it’s what you can think of on the hoof?! How quick are you to work something out? That gives hope to lots of students as long as they can do the pre tests!

What I don't do mumsneedwine is swing into local schools as a Grande dame, dispensing wisdom because a couple of my kids got to Oxbridge.

I was involved years ahead of even my eldest applying.

Also, being only 5' 4" and of slim build, I would make much of a Grande dame.

I'm just wondering why you think no-one could possibly be interested in educational access unless it had to do with their own children. I find that a very odd position to take.

*I wouldn't make, not would!

@mids2019

Why would indpenedents not put forward as many as possible for Oxbridge entry?

Surely it's in the school's interests?

Dilution of the brand if Oxbridge colleges see substandard applicants being put forward.

Hi - GoodbyeStranger - I see we are that stage in the year again .

@Seasonfinale

Interesting.

@Seasonfinale

So I wonder to what extent you can make applications without school support. I presume the reference may not be as glowing?

I wonder if private and state schools take different approaches?

I think sometimes on these threads there is an overestimation of how much support is given with regard to Oxbridge applications other than standard power point presentations in assembly detailing the procedure, that they should be doing supra curricular and perhaps a practice interview once interview invitations are out.

I am sure that some of the public schools may offer more but many offer similar what a standard grammar may offer or the same as local sixth forms and sometimes this is a joint venture with another local school.

Most of what DS tapped into was through his own interest and I made him keep a note of it as I had seen on MN the type of things he may need for his PS.

I believe there are say 1/3 who will get in , 1/3 who won't and a final 1/3 in the middle where it may go either way based on aptitude tests, choices they make re submitted work, interview performance on the day, and who they end up "competing against".

I think why there seems to be more bitterness this year is that fewer offers were made because of the situation so people are looking for reasons. Those who get an offer in normal years and then fail to meet the offers tend to slope off quietly...

Our school started an Oxbridge twilight session about 7 years ago and it has made such a difference. Me and 2 other teachers run it and we always get admissions tutors in to talk to the students - normally via video link but occasionally in person if they are doing the rounds. Outreach colleges have been amazing, usually we visit both during year 12 (it's a 5 hour drive to one and 2 for the other so not that close). Colleges pay for it all. We have seen the numbers applying shoot up and the number getting offers for the last few years has been lovely to see. Many of our brightest students don't apply as they don't want to go there as don't like the course, which is fair enough. My DD2 was asked why didn't she apply to Oxford - they don't even do her course. And Cambs was 6 years not 5 which didn't interest her.
Think there is a lot of myth about Oxbridge allocations but from what I've seen they are very open and transparent in how things are done now. And my references seem to work - we just talk about the strengths of each student and what we judge as their best attributes. Works for our school.

To give you my experience of the cohort my child went to 6th form with, the successful Cambridge applicants performed very confidently in the interview and also had extra in other area's, one of them was in the National Youth Orchestra and the other was very successful in badminton.
I think all the CV extra's such as debating clubs, D of E , EPQ etc might help to get you an interview.

@mumsneedwine did you say you have all of your applicants gain a place at Oxbridge? If not what do you say to the ones that didn't make it? Did you think they wouldn't make it before they applied? Or was their chance as good as other applicants from your particular school?

Well, dd had nothing. She didn’t even mention an interest on her ps - largely because she doesn’t have any!

@mumsneedwine

Can I ask if other universities other than Oxbridge do outreach?

I was thinking of you do have a number of applications and some do not make it where do they go? Do the students have an appreciation of good alternatives for the academically able?

Do you think it is more of a state school thing not applying to Oxbridge because of courses. I wonder how many private school children would not apply as the course does not precisely fit their preference?

@chopc we tell them all at the start that they might not get an offer as it's so competitive. That they will learn a lot just through applying. For the ones that don't get an interview or offer we make sure they know that their other offers (which they usually have by then) are just as great, and that Oxbridge is not the be all and end all. They are just certain Universities that have a different application system. We don't make a big fuss about those that do succeed, besides the same well done we give to everyone. My biggest achievement to me has nothing to do with Uni. It was a student whose mum killed herself when he was 12 and went massively off the rails. Loads of trouble in and out of school. We managed to keep him until 16 and ensure he got an apprenticeship. He's now 24 and a highly sort after carpenter who had 2 lovely kids. He gives me mates rates 😊.

@mids2019 some other Unis do offer outreach but not to the extent Oxbridge now do. Lots of summer schools for eligible students are offered. Medicine and vet medicine are also given extra help at our school as knowing the different styles and allocating requirements is a job in itself.
It may be a state school thing not applying to Oxbridge. Personally I believe it's because we don't market ourselves on where students end up (take everyone in catchment), whereas private schools do use destinations as a hook to get parents in. Our local private school have said it's hard not to suggest it as they know it looks good.
We now have a bank of ex students who mentor Oxbridge applicants and this helps demystify the places as somewhere 'so special it's not for me'.
Our school made this decision because we thought it was worth trialling, but we never thought it would be quite so successful. Loads of other state schools do the same - I know this because I meet my equivalent at conferences and we share ideas and tips.