To think universities should state separate entry criteria for Indies?

[Wacamole]

DD who is on track for 3A*s at A’level, thought she’d give Oxbridge a go after being encouraged by her teachers. All very excited, doing super curriculars etc. Only just been told she doesn’t meet minimum entry criteria that would be expected from an Indy, which is straight 9s. She doesn’t have straight 9s, she has straight 8s (couple of nines), not only that, the course she wanted to apply for at Cambridge doesn’t require Maths at all, but school has advised they won’t even look at her if she doesn’t do Maths AND Further Maths. She is doing neither. Apparently an EPQ is also mandatory even though none of this is mentioned on Cambridge website.

All this second guessing, reading between the lines has been really confusing.
I have no issue with universities asking for higher entry criteria for students from indies for obvious reasons but wish they would be more transparent and state this on their ‘Entry requirements’ same way they state contextual offers?

How can it possibly take you five hours and two hours from your school, given that you've previously said where your school is mumsneedwine? Do you go via Glasgow or something?

Typing while sitting out at tennis and the sun is strong, so possibly I read that wrong, in which case apologies. Or perhaps you're going the usual route but factoring in Friday afternoon traffic and a breakdown closing the motorway in question?

I accept that I'm not on point :)

@goodbyestranger what was that about not pushing for info 😂😂?

It takes that long as in a minibus which is only allowed to go 50. Oxford traffic is hell once there. Cambridge is just a bloody long way up A11 - it seems to go on for ever that last bit. Then we have to park and walk to the college which can take quite a while in tourist crowded streets while not losing any 16/17 year olds. School trips always take longer - it's not like we have 1 child in tow, frequently have 40+ and 3 minibuses to negotiate.

Not pushing for info because you've previously posted the info - just mesmerized by the amount of time you factor in from where you say the school is to Oxford on the one hand and Cambridge on the other. Basically, both are relatively very accessible, travel wise.

Do you think it is more of a state school thing not applying to Oxbridge because of courses. I wonder how many private school children would not apply as the course does not precisely fit their preference?

@mids2019, that reads rather as if, if it ain't what / how it's done at Oxbridge, then it ain't worth doing and that it indicates some kind of deficiency on the part of a potential applicant who decides that it isn't what they want? Should undergraduate degrees everywhere be restricted to the range and content of the offer at those two universities, perhaps?

I would boggle more at the thought of someone paying all that money to have their DC allow themselves to be pushed into applying somewhere for the label without looking at the contents, personally.

Do you think it is more of a state school thing not applying to Oxbridge because of courses. I wonder how many private school children would not apply as the course does not precisely fit their preference?

I would like to think that all students would choose a course that really suits them, over and above the name of an institution, but I guess that some kids may feel under pressure to de-prioritise their own preferences if their parents have invested thousands of pounds in an education specifically with the aim of getting them into Oxbridge.

@CinnamonJellyBeans. It's sad to hear a '6' at GCSE described as a grade that could be achieved by a 'trained monkey'. As I said previously, I went to Cambridge. I now have one child about to do GCSEs (such as they are this year). That child has no SEN and they're not PP. They are probably going to get a range of grades from 4 to 6. They will be thrilled with their 6s - and so will I.

Before I actually had children, I simply assumed that they would be Oxbridge material (taking after me). This child is not. But this child is also not, by any means, a trained monkey - instead, is a person who enriches both my life and the world around them.

@IfYouCantSeeMyMirrors and will find their place in the world and thrive. And be a kind compassionate individual because they understand everyone if different. Exams are only a v small part of life. 😊

As someone who went to abd then interviewed for applicants to Cambridge, what I think is an absolute bloody travesty is the ludicrous ‘grade equivalence’ for non A level students
Scots and Irish students are (or certainty were) extremely disadvantaged

@goodbyestranger I've never posted where I work. Only a locality where I live. Very different things.
And I can tell you've never driven a school minibus 😂.

@IfYouCantSeeMyMirrors, I agree - for some kids, a grade 6 at GCSE will be a significant achievement, and we should not denigrate their efforts.

Some of us will be academic. Some of us will have talents in other areas. All dc deserve to be congratulated if they have performed to the very best of their ability in any of their endeavours.

I disagree. A grade 6 is a modest grade for most brains to attain and the very bare minimum we'd expect in this house. DD2 is a real child. Very unacademic. I still remember the incredulity on her face when she realised that the chant "1, 2, 3, 4, 5 " actually related to a method she could use to keep track of the sweets I was putting into and taking out of her hand. Stopped reading books in year 9. Went to a bogstandard comp. Spends her life on tik tok or on the phone. Lots of socialising. Ordinary teenager. Got mostly 7s and 8s. One 9 and one 5. Very little effort. Good attendance, sat through lessons, did just enough homework to get the teachers off her back.

@AlexaShutUp @MarchingFrogs on TSR there was a student (well known in TSR) who got into Oxford at his fourth attempt. He tried for PPE first and then he got in for Theology. Not sure what his educational background was

In DS school there was a student who applied for Land Economy at Cambridge but for PPE elsewhere- thinking that Land economy was less competitive

Another friend's son was going to apply for Chinese studies at Oxbridge (didn't even know that was a thing) but in the end he decided he couldn't be bothered with the application process but applied to Business related subject elsewhere

Both the latter are in private schools so don't know if it is more likely to be the case in private schools

My DS , hardworking but with dyspraxia, dyscaculia and ADD needed every inch of effort and steely determination to get a C in English and 4 goes to get the same in maths , bizarrely he managed a B in history at the first attempt. Some people on Mumsnet have no idea of what the reality is for a truly a ‘non academic’ child. ( to use a PP phrase. Someone who can get a 6 just by working harder is not ‘non academic’ they are lazy

@CinnamonJellyBeans think your Dd is brighter than you give her credit for

A grade 6 is a modest grade for most brains to attain and the very bare minimum we'd expect in this house.

Then you're very fortunate that you have dc who were able to meet your expectations, as you'd have seriously fucked them up otherwise. Perhaps your dd was more academic than you thought she was.

I'm very fortunate as my dd is the type of kid who gets straight 9s with minimal effort in a bog standard comp, with lots of time left over for friends, hobbies etc. She would be unhappy with anything less than a 9, and rightly so, because academic stuff comes very easily to her.

My friends, who both have Oxbridge undergraduate degrees and PhDs, have one child who is a bit like my dd and one child who will do well to get 4s and 5s in all of her GCSEs. At a push, she might get 6s in her strongest subjects. She is a fantastic kid in many ways, but she is just not academically inclined at all. Her parents are thankfully happy when she does her best, and not when she meets some arbitrary standard that they have plucked out of nowhere.

@CinnamonJellyBeans if at a comp then how can she not know anyone who got 4,5 and 6s who had to work really hard to get them ? Or did she not know many people ?

Exam results do not define a person, they are just a part of who you are. Academic stuff is not for everyone, doesn't mean someone is not clever. I can't make an engine work or paint a portrait or fit double glazing. Everyone has different skills and one thing this pandemic has showed us is who are the vital members of society. Shop workers, bin men, bus drivers, carers. Probably a lot of them never got a 6. But bet their parents are bloody proud of them.

@SeasonFinale
I think your stats are a bit wrong - for Oxford anyway. Nowhere near 1/3 of applicants get in on many courses. Some are less than 10%. In 2019, 23,000 applied for Oxford undergrad. There are around 3300 places. So even my weak maths can see it’s not 1/3 success rate with another 1/3 of maybes.

I used to teach basic skills to adults. One of them couldn't read at all (despite the best efforts of all the teachers). But he ran a successful small business and was funny, very kind and very quick on the uptake. It was impossible to feel superior to him. I would have made an absolute mess of his business.

I have to say that for a long time as a very academic child, I couldn't understand why people were happy with 'mediocre' grades. What was the point, if you couldn't hit the jackpot of an A? Working out the point has been one of the things I've learnt as a parent....

Shop workers have nothing to sell unless it’s grown snd produced. Bus drivers have nothing to drive if no one designs a bus. Even roads are designed. So are web sites for on line ordering. The truth is that ordinary jobs are usually dependent upon others. You cannot give a vaccine if no one has invented it!

@PresentingPercy thanks for agreeing with me. Everyone is worthwhile. Everyone contributes to society in their own way, not just because they can pass exams.

No point having designing a website unless someone packs the boxes. No point having roads unless someone can build them and drive in them. No point having a vaccine unless people stuff it in arms and then look after the eldest members of society to keep them safe.

Apologies for typos. Planning an ICA for year 13.