To think universities should state separate entry criteria for Indies?

[Wacamole]

DD who is on track for 3A*s at A’level, thought she’d give Oxbridge a go after being encouraged by her teachers. All very excited, doing super curriculars etc. Only just been told she doesn’t meet minimum entry criteria that would be expected from an Indy, which is straight 9s. She doesn’t have straight 9s, she has straight 8s (couple of nines), not only that, the course she wanted to apply for at Cambridge doesn’t require Maths at all, but school has advised they won’t even look at her if she doesn’t do Maths AND Further Maths. She is doing neither. Apparently an EPQ is also mandatory even though none of this is mentioned on Cambridge website.

All this second guessing, reading between the lines has been really confusing.
I have no issue with universities asking for higher entry criteria for students from indies for obvious reasons but wish they would be more transparent and state this on their ‘Entry requirements’ same way they state contextual offers?

If you don’t have grammar but have an academic dc the choice can be comp or academic selective.

I’ve found it hard to decide but one thing I don’t know is where dc from comp typically go next.

I haven’t asked specifically though

My DH went to an indie. Not only was he not helped and told not to apply to Oxbridge, he was actually told he wasn’t university material at all and shouldn’t apply to any university. He applied anyway, and got in -Oxford.

Why would indpenedents not put forward as many as possible for Oxbridge entry?

Surely it's in the school's interests?

@daisypond 😊😊 he will go far. Same thing happened to my brother many years ago. Was told was not worthy of Uni but applied to Oxford anyway and now earns zillions. He has no common sense though 🤷‍♀️.
@MarshaBradyo comps tend to not be so bothered about advertising destinations as we are proud of all our kids. Some might go on to do a trade and I'm as proud of them as the medics and lawyers. Not everyone is academic but everyone can succeed to do something they enjoy.

mumsneedwine I know what's going on at state schools independently of my DC, just as you do yourself, and I'm pretty up to speed on all the outreach.

The virtual stuff was for this year. It didn't happen that way in 2020 and it may not be delivered that way in 2022. I was just making the point that not all state school students benefit in the way those at your school clearly do, with a good independent on their doorstep etc, further for day visits from Oxford outreach etc. Different areas/ different challenges (or simply more).

@mids2019 was explained to me that some use it as a marketing tool. So can say 20 applied and we got 20 places. Look how clever we are at getting 'everyone' in.

mumsneedwine, my twins both applied to Oxford this year from a comprehensive and certainly weren't offered interview practice by the university.

DH teaches at a different comprehensive, a large inner city one that was part of an outreach programme for Cambridge, and that didn't involve interview practice either (would have involved a visit were it not for covid). Both these schools arranged interview practice themselves. I've genuinely never heard of this as a facility Oxford and Cambridge would offer, but it's a great idea if they do.

Why is it funny that Oxbridge graduates should choose to teach at state schools btw?

Incidentally, just FYI, my youngest left school last year and is in her first year at Oxford now. So not that old :)

@goodbyestranger can I ask why you're so up on what is going on now. Just interested as you said you were very hands off with your own kids. Do you have family applying or have you retrained as a teacher ? Lots of the information we get from our link colleges is not public knowledge.
And the interview practice has always been available virtually. Because not everyone can travel.

A trained monkey can get a 6. It's a mediocre grade for a child with no SEN/PP

@LoonvanBoon was being sarcastic so apologies if you mussed that.
When your students apply, if they go to a contextual school (& only if) they will get an email outlining the interview practice days. Students get this, not schools. It's usually a few sentences at the bottom of welcome email.

@CinnamonJellyBeans nice. Assume you have never set foot in a school. V unpleasant thing to say. Please never never get a job in education.

[quote mumsneedwine]@daisypond 😊😊 he will go far. Same thing happened to my brother many years ago. Was told was not worthy of Uni but applied to Oxford anyway and now earns zillions. He has no common sense though 🤷‍♀️.
@MarshaBradyo comps tend to not be so bothered about advertising destinations as we are proud of all our kids. Some might go on to do a trade and I'm as proud of them as the medics and lawyers. Not everyone is academic but everyone can succeed to do something they enjoy. [/quote]
Mums I agree and I like the sentiment. I have an older dc at a very good state comp (that people typically move to get near) and I really like the all inclusive community feel, which is still mixed as it’s London.

I’ve never thought to ask where dc go as agree it’s not really right to promote one section of student body in the same way a private does.

For second dc choice was academically selective and same comp. have found it tough decision but have decided.

The one thing that I question is whether dc are measured against grades across class for entry to university as obviously selective spectrum will be far narrower than comp.

@goodbyestranger apologies, I always thought yours were older. But you do say you are very hands off but still seem to know an awful out of what goes on 😊. Which is a good thing in my book. Hopefully you can help other local students in the future.

We met so many kids and their mums at open days/outreach/visits, who boasted about their kids mediocre grades. They should've asked for their money back.

Sorry, mum, I think I'm losing the ability to tell 😄

@MarshaBradyo they are not measured by grades from most schools. Only kicks in if contextual or at a v selective private schools. So if at Eton and getting Bs it will be taken into account as they select their intake so much they should all be able to succeed. To me this is unfair as lots can happen to students during their teenage years which can effect academic scores. Some might even only get a 5, without being a trained monkey 🤬

This might be helpful to OP or anyone whose schook is less helpful

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/interviews

And this. I'm sitting in my garden in the sun and it's lovely to not be marking assessments for an hour.

www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/Interviews%20guide%202017.pdf

mumsneedwine not sure how many times I need to say, without being too specific, that my knowledge of outreach has nothing to do with my own DC.

And obviously , with eight singleton DCs, I do have older ones too.... (I front loaded, one a year for the first six then two more at more sensible intervals).

@goodbyestranger I had to come back to this thread to say: You got 8 children into university? Respect! Just getting two into uni is driving me nuts. ( though some of this is the pandemic haze)

When interviews happen ftf, the interview practice is more beneficial ftf mumsneedwine. Although, tbf, students have got far more tuned in to remote stuff this year, so it may be almost as useful going forward.

Many years ago Oxford and Cambridge moved away from taking the brightest students to taking the most deserving
Oxford and Cambridge have never had a phase of taking ‘the brightest’, they have always been limited by the type of person who applied. Now more students can and should apply. Deserving is the wrong term, the process (standardised as much as possible) picks those who stand out in what they have applied for. Obviously there are lots of close calls some wrong but the people participating in the admissions process do their utmost to make it as fair and as reproducible as possible.

I do think though that this myth about needing to enjoy the interview and even all tutorials to be the sort of person for Oxbridge is rubbish and puts many off. Most students could learn better how to think and analyse with Oxbridge style tutorials that challenge them.

Ah thanks frequentflier. To be fair I've not confirmed that I've remained equable throughout the twelve year stint :)