Another path to greatness - part III

[chopc]

Here is the new thread

Agree SeasonFinale. I don't see that in terms of merit it matters which DC attend Oxbridge and which go elsewhere. I'm a bit confused by the premise, which implies that the students currently getting offers are less intrinsically clever than their predecessors. Their grades may be less good, but their academic potential and merit? I don't think Eton is seeing its lower achievers gain places over their higher achievers; it's purely that grades aren't like for like between the different types of school.

Although it is fair to say that I've had one or two PMs which strongly suggest that some parents feel that to be the case....

That's to say that less clever DC have taken places away from their own much cleverer DC.

Obviously it's incredibly hard to distinguish at the middle point, but then it was always thus.

It's also dubious to distinguish so starkly between Oxbridge on the one hand and the Durhams, Bristols and Exeters on the other. For a start it's a very false premise to assume all the cleverest DC apply to Oxbridge in the first place! Plenty have no wish to go.

Perhaps caliber is the wrong term to have used.

So by WP, able DC's of disadvantaged backgrounds or schooling gets a larger proportion of offers because of the WP / outreach programmes as opposed to in previous years? This means there are less places available to DC who are of equal academic ability but from more privileged backgrounds. Before the WP programmes these DC would have got places at Oxbridge.

As a result there are DC's who end up elsewhere who are very academic and from advantaged backgrounds. More so than a few years ago.

This is a change in demographic no?

Have you all seen "How to break into the Elite"?

The chap who got a 1st from Nottingham was struggling to get any job whereas I think the chap from Brighton was able to talk his way in.

I may be able to put it more eloquently in a later post.

What I am trying to say is that places at Oxbridge are finite. There are more clever people applying for places than the number of places available. However statistics have shown that the background of the students have changed over the years eg stat/ private/ deprived postcode etc. I am not saying that anyone who has an Oxbridge place is less deserving than any other candidate or that less able people are getting a place instead of more able.

I think having to wait so long for an answer makes it so more diffcult if you get a rejection. You keep buidling up your hopes for such a long time.
Ha ha quest1on, I know what you mean, just had a look at TSR..."Yeah I got an offer yesterday. I got 10 9's at GCSE and predicted 4A at A-Level plus A in EPQ". no idea what course though.

@BigWoollyJumpers

bendmeoverbackwards Hi Bend, big hugs to your DD for the news.

My DD is now really looking forward to Exeter. If you think it might help, I could ask if DD would be happy to chat with your DD. She has really moved on so well, very much thinking that things happen for a reason. I have been really proud of her approach. My DD has a long history of anxiety and mental health problems, but she seems to be working through them, and coming out the other side. She is "posh" in that she goes to an Indy and speaks received pronunciation with a Surrey overlay, , couldn't be worse really! But she is lovely (I would say that of course), very accepting of all, has lots of friends of all backgrounds, from drama outside of school, and is, actually, just as worried as being accepted or finding friends, as anyone else's DC's would be, regardless of background. Does that make sense? I hope so.

This is so kind of you @BigWoollyJumpers I will send you a PM.

@MidLifeCrisis007

DS has got his 6th choice college at Durham. Ironically the same college he was allocated to last year.

I wonder if they twigged that he was an accidental re-applicant?!

Is he happy with the college @MidLifeCrisis007?

five - yes I know that you mean. The rejection is bad enough, but the months if waiting just hype up the whole thing more than it needs to be.

All these LSE applicants with 4 A* is one thing, but then you realise they’re applying from far flung places and have done the whole thing in a second language .

What course did you say your DC has applied for again (no problem if you’d rather not say, obviously).

@BigWoollyJumpers

On other threads I heard that employers are also looking outside the elite universities for their recruitment

Indeed. DD1's Oxford degree was definitely a hindrance in some of her graduate applications. Charities, BBC, Theatre and Arts, Pharma, Civil Service (surprisingly) all seemed to have an anti-bias. The only graduate interview she got was with MI5, got down to the last handful too. In the end she got a fab job with a small company (not on the grad run) started by a female Oxbridge grad, who actively recruits female (yay) STEM graduates. You have to find your niche, and maybe go a bit off-piste.

Graduate jobs are like gold dust. When I was at school we were told you can go into 40% of jobs with a degree in anything. What they didn't tell us was that for most graduate schemes, they might have 20 or 30 positions and thousands and thousands of students applying.

Glad to hear things worked out for your dd @BigWoollyJumpers

Dd has come home from school feeling more positive, she's really impressed me with her resilience, think she's surprised herself too!

She told me about something I haven't heard of before, I wonder if anyone has had any experience of this.....UCAS adjustment. Apparently if means that if you exceed your offer come August, you can apply for other courses at other universities WITHOUT compromising your firmed place.

Information here if anyone is interested -www.whatuni.com/advice/clearing/what-is-adjustment/26035/

Dd says she does like Exeter but isn't 100% sure yet and doesn't want to feel that she's settling. She does feel she will get used to the idea in time and there are lots of positives about the course for her.

But in reality the "privileged" are still over represented in terms of straight percentages. Say 20% are privately educated at sixth form (and not all 20% are academically able). There are more than 20% as detailed in the chart set out above. They are no-one's places that have been taken away from them, they aren't anyone's place until they get that place.

As regards recruitment there is still a mixture of applicants applying CV blind or with full CV and some still having to take some form of test and it doesn't always follow that an Oxbridge undergrad passes those tests . As regards law many city firms will still filter first applications by A level grades.

So now both my boys have been rejected by Durham! DS1 just came down and told me. He's smiling and saying it's fine, so I've obviously just given him a hug and said positive things - but can I just rage here for a minute?

DT1 has 9x9s and an A at GCSE. He's predicted 3xA. He's been at non-selective state schools throughout his education so this definitely doesn't fit a reverse social engineering narrative of the type that still appears fairly regularly in newspapers.

His PS was really strong and although he didn't mention extracurricular activities his school reference (which was amazing) did.

We know lots of students (not just the boys' friends - DH works in a school too) with Durham offers, plenty that are not contextual, whose applications were weaker in pretty much every respect.

So I do think Durham has either fucked up somewhere, or should be a lot more transparent about their selection process, or at the very sodding least should not keep students hanging on for 5 months only to reject them in a week when they've got actual A level assessments going on in school.

Need to pull myself together now as the boys will be down to eat shortly, but I'm so pissed off. I was expecting it to the extent I was no longer feeling anxious on DT1's behalf, but I wasn't prepared for how furious I'd feel.

Don't want to stir up this misery for anyone else, but I thought it was better to spill my bile here for a bit. DH is home now and talking to DS I think.

Sorry better link here

www.whatuni.com/advice/clearing/what-is-adjustment/26035/

What they didn't tell us was that for most graduate schemes, they might have 20 or 30 positions and thousands and thousands of students applying

For the majority of placements DD applied for, the application rate was 30k+ .

Given his application was seemingly right at the bottom of the admissions pile, I think he's extremely relieved to have got something that high on his preference list @bendmeoverbackwards!

It's fair to say that it's a college that no one would ever choose as their first choice. Unless they like swans that is.

@bendmeoverbackwards

Dd has come home from school feeling more positive, she's really impressed me with her resilience, think she's surprised herself too!

She told me about something I haven't heard of before, I wonder if anyone has had any experience of this.....UCAS adjustment. Apparently if means that if you exceed your offer come August, you can apply for other courses at other universities WITHOUT compromising your firmed place.

Information here if anyone is interested -www.whatuni.com/advice/clearing/what-is-adjustment/26035/

Dd says she does like Exeter but isn't 100% sure yet and doesn't want to feel that she's settling. She does feel she will get used to the idea in time and there are lots of positives about the course for her.

Yes adjustment is like clearing in reverse so if you exceed your grades offer and there are spaces available on courses that require higher grades then you can speak to them but don't release your firm until you have an agreement from the other uni.

I am not sure she will find anywhere "better" for want of a better word than Exeter with spaces available for either A&M or straight history on results day though.

You do have to release your place before applying in adjustment and you can only apply to one at a time. That is why you need to speak to the "new uni" and have an agreement before releasing and going into adjustment.

[quote chopc]@BigWoollyJumpers do you mind if I ask what she studied at Oxford and what she is doing now?

[/quote]
I'll DM you - I have been caught out before by too explicit with DD's details.

Oh @LoonvanBoon I hear you. I'm so sorry for such rubbish news and I don't blame you one bit for feeling like you do. I was reading your post and nodding along to everything you said.

My dd also had a great PS and a glowing reference and knows of people with Durham offers who are not as academically strong.

I don't think Durham have acted well at all. It's quite clear they don't care about the students' well-being or even getting the right students - they just want to fulfil their quota and get the right number of bums on seats.

Sod them!

@BigWoollyJumpers

What they didn't tell us was that for most graduate schemes, they might have 20 or 30 positions and thousands and thousands of students applying

For the majority of placements DD applied for, the application rate was 30k+ .

Noooooo!

Sorry what I mean is once you put in your adjustment if they accept it , you do release the current firm.

@LoonvanBoon that is s*

I am truly sorry for your DT1

It's difficult to know what has gone on. I wonder if parents go through this every year or if this year seems to be a particularly horrible as we are going through it ourselves ?

Thank you @SeasonFinale I was thinking the chances of getting a History offer from somewhere half decent are low.

But there will be people who get multiple offers and they can only accept one. And even then they might not fulfil the offer criteria (although much less likely this year). So there could be odd places floating around come August.

[quote chopc]@LoonvanBoon* that is s

I am truly sorry for your DT1

It's difficult to know what has gone on. I wonder if parents go through this every year or if this year seems to be a particularly horrible as we are going through it ourselves ? [/quote]
It is a mixture of both. There are sometimes very able students rejected by unis for what reason we may never know. The difference this year is that fewer offers (for all the reasons previously discussed) are being given out so on a thread populated by those who have also not had Oxbridge offers it seems more heightened than usual.

I am sorry that DT1 has been similarly disappointed and I am sure you have said before but what were their offers they currently hold/are waiting for?