Another path to greatness - part III

[chopc]

Here is the new thread

Wow @quest1on - a work experience opportunity! That sounds really promising and an ideal opportunity for him to take stock and decide what he wants to do while enhancing his CV. I'm sure Oxbridge would look at this favourably too should he wish to reapply.

I will be so interested to learn what he makes of Durham.

We were there yesterday dropping my DS off who is in his second year. It's such a lovely little community and we've met most of his friends now who are such a nice bunch of young people.

Another poster posted this on the Durham thread

go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.dur.ac.uk/coronavirus/applicants/ which made me happy

@quest1on I don't envy the decisions in your household and I guess some young people are largely influenced by friends and their actions. The living in London going to London Uni was what I experienced at UCL which made house shares difficult but most did live out in the first year.

He was never going to get the small town Uni experience in London - do you know why he chose to apply there in the first place? But is he going to get the diversity in the small towns?

Great news about the work experience opportunity.

No decision needs to be made now. There is fine. Keep us posted

I think basically DS is exhausted. He tends to take things to the max because he’s influenced by his friends and the environment in his school is not exactly normal, to be frank. When I look back now, on top of all the normal A-level work since this time last year, not to mention the uncertainty they have all faced this year, he’s done a 15,000 word EPQ, a whole interactive thing on the computer for the RGS competition which took him weeks last summer; a 14,000 word NEA which was a lot of independent fieldwork and research; another (shorter) independent research essay which was published; some other piece for an FT essay competition and another one I can’t even remember what it was! This has been done largely in isolation in his bedroom. They did formal exams in September; more exams before Xmas; he had exams before Easter and now has a two-week exam period coming up, followed by another one in mid-May! It’s been mental. I think he’s at the point where he feels like he’s been on a conveyor belt in that school since he was 11 and he wants some time to discover his ‘passion’ (sorry hate that term) for learning again, rather than jumping through hoops with one deadline after the next, if you see what I mean. The vibe at LSE is very much like a continuation of his school and I can see that. I guess he applied to 2 London unis and 3 outside because he didn’t know how he would feel either way when the time came. So this is where we are now . But also he has a really interesting work experience option and there’s absolutely loads of things he could do in a geography gap year to be honest. Maybe it’s what he needs at this point? I don’t know. I think he’ll just get through this next round of exams and things will hopefully become clearer..

Hm, I think if you already have lived in London your whole life, London unis might not be as interesting as for others. DC1 is at a London uni, and loves being in the middle of such a big city, has made good friends with people from his own uni but in completely different courses.

Quest1ion, your dc has definitly been busy ....but it has also for "less busy" people been difficult to do anything else than...schoolwork. Easy to lose perspective.

Yes sure and probably he just did the other stuff as there’s been nothing else to do in any case . I was just reflecting on the cooped-up intensity of this year and also how much more seems expected of them these days. I’m sure things were less pressured when I was at school.

No wonder he's exhausted, quest1on - that's an impressive but slightly terrifying list! I thought EPQs were only about 5000 words.

Once you've got that 'conveyor belt' feeling a year out is probably an excellent idea. I agree there's a real danger of losing touch with your enthusiasm for learning if you keep pushing on regardless.

They have four or five months before Uni starts - plenty of time to re energise IMO

But if he doesn't want to go to any of the Unis on offer - that's another thing altogether

Oh, no don't get me wrong quest1ion, yours has definitelly done more than most.
Just that there is not much else to do to get your head out of the school stuff. Dc would normally have gone to her parttime job etc it's not just school/bed.
And that's justmy worry chopc, that all the plans dc had for the long holidays are cancelled so just going to be hanging around at home. She has still not been able to go back to her parttime job either.

I do think DC have not been able to grow as people. Their roles as the oldest at school have been diminished. Their sport, drama and music has gone. Work too. Their personalities have been dimmed. Working at academic stuff might suit a few but not singing would have been difficult for DD1. Young people need ways to contribute to school life and grow as people and it’s not all about academics. But they have been pushed down that road.

I think it’s also somewhat counter productive to get drained by work you didn’t need to do. It seems as though this work has caused problems. Not least that no university is good enough which seems odd. Although the offer of work will help DC move on - ready for the angst of applying all over again.

A bit harsh.

DC are all different. In sixth form DD played four different sports, representing school, county and region, had a school leadership position and took five A levels. She liked being busy, but perhaps like Quest1on's son, it did catch up with her when some stuff happened at home, which is why she took a gap year. Yes something to learn, but being used to carrying quite a heavy workload and having very organised work habits have done her no harm. DS also took five A levels, but is studious loved his subject and did plenty of reading beyond the syllabus.

I think DC will develop, albeit in different ways. They will be resilient, and perhaps more understanding. They will have better distance communication skills, not a bad thing for the modern workplace. I certainly feel that we as a family bubble have become closer, and we have certainly lost some of the consumer habit. . I think many of us have benefitted from more quiet in what is a noisy world.

I also disagree with your criticism of "no University is good enough". Getting the course right is important. DS wanted one of the top four mathematical economics courses. If he did not get one he would have applied again as he knew he was good enough. (He would have had more of a Plan B second time around.) This was standard advice at his school. I explained above how if good applicants for very oversubscribed courses each have a 50% chance of a place, other things being equal, most will end up with a couple, some will get four, and some none. The 50% is almost certainly lower this year. Unfortunately it is likely that there will be similar problems next. However course choice is a big decision. It is worth talented DC being both realistic and selective.

I am afraid I recognise PresentingPercy's post more than Needmoresleep

I feel only too aware of how my children have had a tough time and lost opportunities to develop and spread their wings during this past year.

So I found nomoresleep's post, especially the second paragraph, really helpful. I struggle to think of benefits of the past year, but I think my two have developed in some harder to quantify ways: learning strategies to deal with stress (DT2 has done a lot of running); walking much more and showing more interest in and appreciation of nature; practising cookery skills (quite likely to be in self-catered accommodation, so useful). And yes, the distance communication skills and family activities have probably been enhanced too.

I worry sometimes that I'm in danger of reinforcing their sense of having missed out, and I know that's not helpful.

I know exactly what you mean @LoonvanBoon . I don't dwell on it in front of DS1. I talk about it with friends instead. Plus we need to remember they don't know what they have lost so no need to detail it to them .......

As much as anything I was responding to Percy's effectively criticism (or that's how I read it) of Quest1on's son.

DC are different, however there seems to be a MN view of how DC should be, and what they should expect from University. So, say, if anyone suggests that the party vibe in some Universities is heavy the response is often that there is something wrong with the DC. Equally if a DC takes four or more A levels, because they are happy doing so, this is seen as wrong.

It makes discussion difficult. Some Universities/courses suit academic/studious kids more than others. DD struggled in Bristol, until she found her friends and could choose who she shared with. DS would have hated it. In contrast the learning culture at LSE was perfect for him. It would not be for others. It is not a case of Universities not being good enough. It is about Universities not being right.

I haven't posted on this thread before but just wanted to add that I don't think it is unusual to feel confused when hypothetical options turn into real offers, especially long-awaited ones. My DS is an aspiring medic and at the start of this year he would have been delighted with a single offer from any of the medical schools he applied to. Now, with a number to choose from, he is finding it difficult to choose between his top two. I also agree that generalisations about certain Universities and who is suited to them doesn't really help. One of his options is Bristol and it could be that he decides to go there but, if he does, it is certainly not because he is looking for a crazy social life.

I know that we're not in the very sad situation of ljmutti's dc's school students losing a classmate but DD's appetite for studying/forthcoming exams seems to be at an all time low in all her years of schooling. So many people are telling her that she's a great candidate who has just been very unlucky this year and school are warning that next year will be just as oversubscribed or worse so make the most of any offers (which isn't helpful when you have none).

Honestly, the this year's forthcoming assessments seem like the emotional/mental equivalent of a physical assault course challenge with a certain group of "unlucky" students taken aside and beaten up just before they approach the start line but then expected to be able to compete over the obstacles just as well as those who haven't been battered about. I am really worried about how she'll keep her nerve and perform.

It's all very well banging on about resilience. Resilience has seen her through bullying at primary school for being "geeky", hospital treatments, the unpleasant breakdown of her parents' marriage, recently losing a much loved relative and now this. Everyone has their breaking point and I worry that she is at hers just when she needs to hold it all together like never before otherwise her chances are slim next year.

@SATSmadness please talk to the school as soon as you can. They need to know and document everything she has gone through this past year as it can be used as mitigation for her grade. She also needs support and someone to listen to her - she has been resilient, now she needs adults to step in. It's tough enough normally to get no offers (we have 4 who didn't get any and 2 have perfect exam results), but this year is worse as it's dragged on.
Next year she will have grades in hand, be a year older and hopefully interviews will be in person. Wish I could give her a hug and tell her it will work out but it's hard to see the positives at the moment. ❤️

SATSmadness, your daughter clearly has had an even tougher time than most and it must be so difficult to know how to support/ what to advise.

Agree that the A level assessments, and the way they've overlapped with university decisions (DTs' school started theirs in the last week of last term, just when they got their Durham rejections) are not helping.

I know some schools seem to be taking a sensible approach, but DTs' school is doing stupid numbers of assessments, some very short, all because they didn't get their act together to do any other assessments/ exams in the whole of the 6th form. They've basically got constant assessments, every week, until they leave at the May half term. Far worse than A level exams imo.

Why does your DD's school think the situation will be just as bad next year, SAtSmadness - I've heard this a few times, but don't know whether it's a matter of numbers/ the fact that next year's Year 13s have CAGs for GCSE, or other factors I'm not aware of.

mumsneedwine, what practical measures can schools take when there are mitigating factors? I know normally you'd let the exam boards know about mitigating factors and have wondered how it will work this year. I'm not sure all teachers know (DH didn't seem to when I asked him. It doesn't specifically apply to our children, but I was interested).

SATS - I’m so sorry for your DD and I agree the school need to step in now and take some pressure off her. I think I mentioned that DS has a friend in the exact same position with no medical offers, despite top flight grades. It makes no sense to me. But you know, medicine is a long and arduous degree at the best of times and a gap year, although not what she planned, might actually be a good thing in the long run. DS’ other friend’s mum (another aspiring medic) told him straight out that she would not pay the fees unless he agreed to a gap year (this boy also pushed himself to the max and there’s no point finding that you can’t cope a couple of years in). Also, some parents seem to know the score and this mum knew it would be an unprecedented year.

DS is saying some things that are a bit odd and I’ve told him this, but he’ll be ok. He’s usually very pragmatic, but I think it’s exam pressure manifesting as a uni flap. But if he defers a uni and takes a gap year, I think that’s ok too. Plenty do this. There is a so-called “week of reflection” following this two-week exam phase he’s into now - so maybe that will help him reflect!

Do they really need to do so many exams? I think it’s all OTT. It’s even worse for my one who is doing GCSE as there’s about 5 exams a week up until half-term!

@quest1on is your DS ok? Do you think you should talk to someone about how he is feeling? Such as youngminds.org.uk/

I have read your posts about him since almost the beginning of the Oxbridge journey and he seemed to have changed a lot. Might be reading between the lines and talking complete crap here but when you say he is saying some things that are odd - odd but makes sense or odd doesn't make sense?

@SATSmadness - please give your DD a virtual hug and tell her nothing is worth more than her health and she will be absolutely fine. For the moment focus on things she can control which are her upcoming assessments. And definitely talk to her teachers. I have a feeling parents may need to contact exam boards directly but not sure ......

Thanks chop. I think he’s ok, but just losing some perspective mainly at this point. But I’m watching how he goes.

@LoonvanBoon sorry, busy day back teaching.
School can use the data from assessments and then up grade the results with back up from the documented issues, usually about 5-10% so imagine that's what we will do this year too. Bit like normal years but we do it ourselves - no need to go to exam board as school with submit the grades they have agreed on. Documentation only required in case they are audited.
I'd talk to tutor and/or exams officer. Each school will have a different process this year but all should have one in place.
But most important thing is to talk to someone urgently so help can be given to get that motivation back.

Thanks mums, I hope schools are brave enough to do this when justified.

@Loonboonvan what mumsneedwine said together with the fact that medicine applications were up by 21% this year. This means that there will be even more without places next year who may be applying second year round plus next year's year 13 are a higher birth rate year. And although there are approximately 7000 medicine places there were 28,960 applicants. Reapplicants were approximately 4,700 which was an increase of approximately 1600.

With another batch of students anticipated to meet grades it doesn't look as though it will be any different next time round.

This is why the UCAT/BMAT cut off scores were higher than usual.

Sorry bit of a detail but - Re the medicine/medical place issues - I do think there must be an argument for increasing training places and the F1 places that follow. I understand that no one wants unemployed doctors but we have a GP surgery locally that cannot recruit a full time GP, despite offering £30k pa over the going rate. As a result the practice is now in special measures. Whilst we are still offering massive extra incentives to attract doctors to some under-doctored parts of the country I don't know how we can justify as a country turning down these bright motivated kids who want to train.