Another path to greatness - part III

[chopc]

Here is the new thread

I was so excited about @quest1on 's DS's LSE offer, I was about to

🎉🥳🍾

and then I read on and felt a bit

🙁

I think your DS will feel quite differently by Monday, so with time I'm sure clarity will be achieved.

It does seem like LSE is a good fit for him but an imminent visit to Durham sounds like a good move!

I'm really relieved he's out of the waiting game....

Thanks jan. He’s in a really funny mood, I don’t know if someone has said something to him. Could be exams pressure. He also has his 18th next week but doesn’t want anything and doesn’t want to see anyone or plan anything with his friends.

He was not too bad at all with the C rejection in Jan. I mean he was pissed off for maybe 48 hrs, but that was it. He saw friends who he considers more academic than him get rejected too so in this sense, wasn’t shocked at his own rejection. But now I think he’s overwhelmed in general.

I think if I was in your position @quest1on, I might encourage DS to try to separate the admissions process which will likely have been overseen by a totally different bunch of people he’ll never meet at Uni. He rightly abs justifiably feels angry but in normal times he might get to meet the people who will be teaching and welcoming him enthusiastically and see it was not them who left him hanging.

I might be wrong and have misunderstood the admissions process of course so do correct me if I’m talking crap, but just a thought?!?

And to add another Fwiw.. dc is not white, is northern and from a state school so will be adding to a (hopefully!) more diverse population at Durham in September.

Many congratulations to your son, quest1on. Sorry he's not feeling very excited about it at the moment, but agree it's not all that surprising after such a very long wait.

Hopefully a visit to Durham will help, one way or the other. We're pinning our hopes on the magic of a visit, too, planning to go to Warwick with DT2 in a couple of weeks so he can get a feel for the campus.

I had no idea Year 13 would be so hard or that our students would be kept waiting so long. I think the stories of how students have fared during the pandemic have also taken some of the shine off university as an idea. It's made it unavoidably clear that universities are businesses, financially driven, and that their needs don't always involve being sympathetic, fair or transparent to their students and prospective students.

Congratulation to your DS @quest1on.

Thanks all. DD does have an offer from Durham which she’s intending to firm so while it’s incredibly frustrating, she’s lucky that she has somewhere to go next year. Spoke to her school today and I think they intend to send Bristol an email asking for specific reasons for the rejection so hopefully she’s able to get a bit of closure.

@SATSmadness I’m so sorry to hear about your DC - DD has a friend in a similar position with medicine applications. I feel so angry on her behalf, they want brilliant new doctors but are turning away so many talented and fiercely intelligent students?

Just like Oxbridge, the margins are probably so small for medicine as well. Has your DD had interview feedback @SATSmadness ? Medical schools don't always get it right either - I have known some doctors with no people skills nor applicable medical knowledge in my time but they have managed to get through medical school.

@mikeandike Durham for Law is a brilliant offer to hold! I know we want our DC to have options but at the end of the day, they just need one offer right? And Durham is highly thought of for law and I believe it is ranked higher than Bristol - although probably not much in it for graduate law prospects.

Medicine is an interesting one.
I'm not an expert but rapidly becoming much more knowledgeable about the application/entry system due to a new role I've just taken on.
There are a fixed number of medical places in the UK so it's not quite true to say "they want more doctors", implying that they should take more students. They can't. There's a fixed number of foundation places and those aren't going to increase so the numbers of students graduating needs to equal these. Unemployed doctors has never really been an issue in the UK and no one wants it to start being so.
(As an aside, until recently, graduates from Europe were treated on an equal footing with those from the UK when applying for places. I don't know how that will now work post Brexit. I used to score foundation place applications in the previous system - changed a few years ago - and occasionally you could tell that someone was applying with English as very-much-not their first language although I'm sure I scored plenty highly who were from European universities as well).
So with a 21% increase in applications to medicine this year there were inevitably going to be a significantly higher number of disappointments this year.
Fwiw I think that contextual / WP offers have made quite a big difference to who is getting interviews, particularly at some med schools. I think this is quite positive for society as a whole and for those students in particular, but I think it is tough for the high fliers who made some assumptions about their applications.
For medicine the important thing is getting an interview. Once you have an interview you're all on a level playing field and, with a very few exceptions, the interview results are then all that count and it genuinely is up to performance on the day.
WP changes other students chances of getting interview offers so it's important students apply strategically.
However it's also true that in normal years it's less of an issue as people will be more likely to miss grades so the schools will over offer which obviously they have been scared to do this year.
I don't know about how WP affects other courses so sorry if this is not relevant to the points that were being made earlier.

@Chilldonaldchill you might find this useful if involved in medicine applications. It's on Weds after school.

choices.ncl.ac.uk/medicineteacheradviserconference

Not sure what happened to my post from last night... quest1ion, congratulations!
I agree that once things "have setteld down" to look at the offers again and pick what suits your son best. My older dc in the end didn't like the course at LSE as he felt it was too narrow.
All a bit bizarre, current dc is academically much better than dc1 (better GCSE and A levels), but looks like dc2 will end up with a much "lower ranked" uni.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Chilldonaldchill you might find this useful if involved in medicine applications. It's on Weds after school.

choices.ncl.ac.uk/medicineteacheradviserconference[/quote]
Thank you that's amazingly helpful!

@fiveoldteddies and how is that in any way "right" or just? 🤷🏽‍♀️

Sometimes it's just the way life works out sadly

Just to reassure @mikeandike

Durham is brilliant for Law. Possibly better than Bristol. To be very honest, your DC is in a very good position for a legal career.

However, for anyone practicing Law, it is not just about Durham vs Bristol. Both are rated by employers. Please make sure DC goes to recruitment fairs, applies for internships or tries to get relevant work experience with any legal firm. Durham is very well set up for advice and timings of applications for internships and training positions.

Additionally, even volunteering can make a huge difference. My DD volunteered for the CAB and also the National Trust before that. It hones people skills! It fleshes out the CV. She organised events at university and was president of a society. It is something to talk about at interview - and yes, she was asked about her interests and volunteering. Obviously very good exam results and degrees open doors but you do have to push them open and get through!

I totally accept that the very brightest of students might not need all the extras on the cv, but it can make DC into rounded people if they do that bit more. Juggling your time is also a huge attribute for a lawyer!

I think, to be fair to the universities, this year must have been exceptionally difficult regarding decisions. I am sure they would not have wanted any potential student waiting this long.

So I think it is best to accept that this year is not straightforward and it is not a slight on the ability of any young person. No one is entitled to get into any university though.

Sometimes people are pipped to the post for all sorts of reasons. I have known Headteachers to be appointed, but turn down a school in favour of one they think is better. You then offer to the second choice who might well know they are second choice! If they want the job enough, they accept. It happens all the time, in all walks of life. You might not be in the prime spot to be number 1, but you get there! I think a slightly more philosophical approach is better than being upset because of the wait. Yes, it is annoying, but if the offer is there, it should be weighed up against what DC really want out of a degee/course/university without the wait in the mix - in my view.

Well. I often tell my DC life is not fair but also it is what you make of it.

It is what you make of it and UCL, Durham, Bristol and other universities mentioned are hardly back numbers. Even those bog standard RG universities won’t hold anyone back if the student thinks about their job strategy and fleshes out their cv.

You are both correct of course.

I guess it's a bitter pill to swallow that you have worked hard, achieved fantastic grades, very interested in the subject you want to study ...... and still can't get into the institution you want .......

I know DC who have had exactly the same problem over many years. I think it almost adds to the mystique of certain universities. Hardly anyone gets in so very decent candidates think they should not even try.

I remember in DD1’s year at school, two very high flying candidates got nowhere at all for English. Almost unbelievable - and that was 11 years ago. There are always odd decisions made. It was even more odd that the least glowing DD did get into Cambridge to do English. She was just that bit more whacky and engaging. The others did not get an interview so no-one knew what they were like. The DD who was successful surprised her parents. Friends of ours. I would have put money on the other two!

@PresentingPercy Do you know what happened to your friends' DD after she graduated from Cambridge? She must be nearing 30 now. Interested to know whether Cambridge could spot potential which others failed to recognise...

I do actually. She works for a company that pitches tv programme ideas to programme makers. So it’s quite a creative job. It suits her. It took her years to get this job though.

The girls who went elsewhere for English also work in the world of film - one in sourcing and dressing locations for film and the other in film production - now in NY. All enjoy what they are doing now and have found their niche in life. None did further qualifications. They didn’t give up when the ideal jobs were hard to get but 4-5 years after graduating the Cambridge grad was essentially not getting anywhere other than non grad jobs. You could say none needs to be a grad for what they do but they all are talented people. I’m not sure Cambridge added anything re getting the job she now has.

Cambridge could have spotted the talent the other two had but didn’t.

Sorry for posting again. It’s early!

I do think who is talented at English is very difficult to ascertain. What is potential? To do what? Not everyone will research English via a PhD. What is potential for an Rnglish student? I’m not sure.

It possibly comes down to who might fit the course slightly better regarding entry but I really don’t know. They all had similar A level results in the end but the GCSEs of the girl who got in were the least impressive which is why she seemed not the best candidate on paper. All gained with extra time too. Not sure there was “potential” to spot.

Thank you for taking the time to respond @PresentingPercy, very interesting. So the three students in question took different paths to similar and personally satisfying creative roles.

Obviously there are still 2-3 decades of career for them to navigate but this is reassuring nevertheless that there are indeed different paths to greatness....

Hi, we went and looked at some LSE / UCL accommodation options yesterday. Obviously you can’t go inside anywhere. I have to say, it does all feel a bit disparate.

I was talking to my neighbour’s DD also who went to LSE and she said she left her first year halls half way through the year as it was so impersonal and she just commuted in from home after that until, in the final year, she rented a flat with her boyfriend.

A lot of DS’ friends who are planning on London unis are just going to live at home apparently, which surprised me.

I don’t want to be in a situation where DS is coming home all the time. Not that I don’t want to see him, but I really want him to have the uni experience I had which was in a small town and it was no effort to find people.

We will go and look at Durham in two weeks when his exams are over and see if he can see himself there. It just feels a long way north!

On top of this, a really good gap year work experience has come up. Quite a lot of his friends have decided to take gap years following unexpected rejections from unis they (reasonably) feel they would have got into in other years. I don’t mean Oxbridge, but places like UCL and Durham.

So all up in the air here basically!