Durham University

[KingscoteStaff]

A continuation thread for those with DC at Durham, or applying for Durham or alumni or staff! Share your thoughts and questions on colleges, courses, etc.

Assemble! @Baytreemum @WelshDaff @WinterRobin @janinlondon @MarchingFrogs @ChildOfFriday @tava63 @Terfterfterf @TonTonMacoute @Suki2 @Quair @Greyhair59 @bpisok @Jan069 @999caz @nipersvest @mum2eim @witchend @chopc @alterego2

Who have I missed??

Of course @MrsTabithaTwitchit. If that happens that's absolutely fine. If a student is presented with the information of course it's up to them to make the most of the opportunities and use their initiative .

But they need a starting point

It seems I may not have understood some previous posts

Yes chopc.

I was a first time Uni applicant parent at one stage although I have to say it never occurred to me to look at what was in the marketing bumph about careers. But from the jaded perspective of a parent with seven DC out the other end I would say that the facility is there for advice, but it won't seek out students. I think fee paying parents do expect things to be handed a bit on a plate, and that isn't how it is once the DC go to uni.

@chopc they will do all that , but the student has to contact the careers service and arrange an appointment , they have to read the emails from the careers service which advertise the talks and webinars on CV writing and the milk round visits by graduate employers. They have to make time in their schedule to attend these events . The careers service are not going to be constantly chasing them saying ‘have you done this and have you done that’

I can say with a degree of confidence that the careers service at Durham never approached my Durham DS, in the same way that the careers service at Oxford never approached my DDs or DSs. So pretty similar from that POV :)

And for the record I am a few paying parent and absolutely do not expect my dc to be handed stuff on a plate, quite the reverse , I expect them to appreciate the advantages they have had in life and make the most of them

Surely a student's 'employability' is a product of their skills and knowledge. Since this is largely determined by their education then it's right the university claims some credit for that.

I credit my own university for teaching me well and enabling me to have a good career but the 'support' was minimal in terms of advice. I can see the same happening with DS1. He's likely to be very employable but he'll find the opportunities himself.

I was wondering if to counter you and your assumption or to just let you have the last word as you seem to like in all the threads I have come across you goodbye 🤔

For the sake of not derailing the Durham thread I will leave it

Absolutely @MrsTabithaTwitchit . That is what I was expecting and I am pleased to hear that happens

I think it is also true that one advantage of a university like Durham is simply having it on your CV ( this would go for others as well but this is a Durham thread) . It is shorthand for a certain level of education, I know for a fact that having Durham on my CV certainly got me through the door for an interview on occasion, it doesn’t get you the job but it gets you a chance . It’s also about the networks that you make while you are at university.

Gosh that's cut me right down chopc :)

I simply add what I know from direct experience.

These threads really would be more friendly and indeed useful if chippy people reigned it in a bit.

Haha reined not reigned.

@chopc I can totally see where your coming from especially in terms of support for those seeking work experience without the connections that some students have and definitely don’t read your posts as someone wanting your DC to be spoon fed. My DS is an aspiring actuary and work experience is key prior to securing a summer internship in his 2nd year. He has developed his network by attending a few key conferences and connected with key speakers there. This may be helpful to your DC in their chosen potential profession too? Also, any volunteering/work shadowing experience (however short the placement is) is useful. I know you know how important self motivation is but trying to understand Durham’s support in this is a reasonable question, sadly, I think the answer is it’s very little

999caz but no different from elsewhere.

In the experience of my own DC, 'work experience' has not been an issue at all in terms of securing second year summer internships at Magic Circle firms or banks, let alone key.

@goodbyestranger That’s all good then, but still important to hear and listen to others valid questions and concerns. Not everyone has your obvious wealth of experience in this situation!

Yes but I do have experience in the exact field that chopc says her DC wants to go into! Both as someone who was at a Magic Circle firm in medieval times and as a mother of two Magic Circle DC and a barrister who are recent/ very recent graduates.

My question would be why chopc's DC hasn't applied to read law, if the DC is so clear that is his chosen direction and if (big if) the DC hasn't so far had much exposure to law (perhaps the DC has).

It's a good idea to watch out for the lemming trap at uni (lots of second years applying en masse for particular vac schemes so that others feel compelled to join them without stopping to consider if that line of work is right for them).

Even at schools the careers service is there to be accessed rather than careers services chasing round after pupils., although there may be some form of "compatability testing" done and three line whips to force kids to attend careers fairs or talks.

As an adult at uni it is for the student to decide what they might want to do and if unsure can seek out advice as to what they might want to do next. Some have an idea from the outset and some don't. As Goodbye says when some start applying for internships etc it sometimes kicks others into gear to seek assistance or do their own research or as she rightly says just apply forvwhat others are applying for without going through a thought process as to whether that is what they truly want but because they think it is what is expected of them.

Most unis have something on employability in their admissions literature because like everything these days there are statistics and rankings and if they score highly then of course they highlight these as a marketing tool. When making their own decisions on where they want to go the student may have different priorities as to where they choose to go. DS didn't want campus and wanted city. He has a good idea of what he wants to do careerwise so did look at where that field does seem to recruit from. Most of the unis that the kids of the people populating this thread are applying to fall into a similar category insofar as desirability to an employer anyway so I am not sure it becomes a deal breaker in any way. The Careers Service is simply that - a service they can choose to access in the same way they can access Family Planning Services. Neither is going to contact you to force anything on you. They may make contact to draw your attention to the fact they are there if you want to use them.

So for example Chambers publishes every 3 years the stats showing where trainees for law firms are recruited from. To some extent this does not change much because if people know from the outset that is what they want to do they may look at those stats and then decide to apply to the ones with the highest %. But even looking down the top 20 it is no real surprise which ones are there. They are generally the ones that the students with higher grades apply to across the board. So in turn are generally populated by the calibre of student who turn to that type of career anyway. So it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy in a way. It is no big surprise that employers recruit high calibre people from unis that are highly ranked.

Sorry that was way longer than I intended it to be when I started.

@chopc I too have a 2nd yr son at Durham.. he's not mentioned any kind of placement because let's be honest... he's not been there and we're in the middle of a pandemic.
That said, he was online in tutorials / lectures all day everyday, until Easter holiday, so I think I can safely say that Durham will offer all the help they want and its up to them to take it, if they want it.. Also, unless you have a child who tells you everything or who responds to questioning,.. you will not hear anything about the degree at any point, so you might want to think about being a little less involved?

Ingles2 absolutely, less is often so much more. Mine have gone through uni with me having very little idea about anything to do with their courses, other than when exams were coming up or if there was a dissertation deadline and seven have emerged the other end. One to go.

There's also a strong argument for not getting too narrow before you even start uni about what you want to do, assuming a non vocational course.

I feel sorry for the Magic Circle firms and investment banks who get flooded with applications for vac schemes and placements each year, a high percentage from people who would actually loathe that type of thing if they were recruited and are wholly unsuited to it. It's a massive waste of everyone's time.

I've just come on to echo pp that you don't get spoon fed anything at uni, but if you've been to a good school (not necessarily fee paying) then you should be prepared for that. If you're unprepared, you learn pretty swiftly. Uni life is about learning to juggle and prioritise, in the same way in later years at school you don't still get one piece of homework due the next day, but multiple overlapping with various deadlines. This is what sets you up for the world of work.

I don't work in law or banking, but I do work for a huge multi National which takes a large internship and graduate intake each year. (Including people throwing in an application because they feel they should). Good academic qualifications are a given. This is why it's so important for students to get involved in club and societies and positions of leadership.

For those who don't know what to do, the careers service is available for guidance but it won't chivvy them along.

With regards to contacts and networks, I think most big firms are now so conscious of the importance of diversity and inclusion, the recruitment processes are completely transparent.

If anyone is struggling to get a placement they should look at what they can do to help themselves rather than blame a lack of contacts. The careers service could help review application letters, CVs etc. The student should look at what skills and competencies the firms want. Are they explicitly highlighted via examples? If missing, what is being done to plug the skills gaps?

Sorry - also long!

Appreciated all the responses about the careers provision at Durham.

I think I have been clouded by my brother who went to Lancaster and said his difficulty getting into a grad scheme afterwards was due to its distance from London and the lack of careers service at Lancaster (this was over 20 years ago). Durham is far from London but due to its graduate prospects I didn't worry about this aspect. But was interested in the careers services as it has been a while since we were at Uni and we have been living abroad for some time so felt a little out of touch.

For someone who claims to be relatively hands off goodbye you are awfully active on these threads and claims to know quite a lot which doesn't make sense to me.

You did say one thing I agree with - a career choice shouldn't be made aged 18 (unless you are doing a vocational degree) because I feel you haven't explored all the options. So was interested how DC will explore all the options and if any guidance is provided.

As for the question about his degree choice : He loves History. In fact after doing some work experience in the summer after GCSE's he was thinking of doing a straight Law degree. However everyone he spoke to at school and even DH who is a solicitor advised him to do something else first as a law degree is not a pre requisite to being a lawyer.

If he does choose to go down the Law route, DH can guide him. I didn't trust his advise for a while as it would be 2 decades out of date and I wanted to know more current experience. For example DH got his training contract towards the end of his second year and quite unusually has been with his firm since. He didn't have any work experience prior to that. However I understand now a lot of contracts are given to people who are on summer placements/ internships. He can advise DS what they would look for at interview but by the time they get to him, they are in the final four. So I wanted to find out more about the start.

My next door neighbour's son who studied History at Durham hasn't managed to secure a training contract so that got me thinking as well.

As for being involved - I don't think I am any more or less involved than any of the other posters. However I like to be well informed so DC don't miss opportunities. If this makes me a helicopter parent or over involved - then so be it.

Elder DS is ambitious and hard working. If I can help him along the way - why not?

As a wise middle aged woman I am pleased I listened to my parents and their advise. Although they didn't know much about university life or a career starting out of that as they are immigrants who moved to UK as adults. They gave me whatever help they could and I am grateful for that. It doesn't mean I am not independent and can't think for myself or I lacked my own drive.

Also long

For someone who claims to be relatively hands off goodbye you are awfully active on these threads and claims to know quite a lot which doesn't make sense to me.

Hands off as a parent; a little more hands on in terms of access. Also, even leaving that aside, if you multiply up the number of DC I have by a circle of friends for each one, almost all from Oxford or Durham, that alone through general conversation generates quite an unusual amount of knowledge!

No need to be snaky chocp; let's keep the tone civil.

Apologies: snarky not snaky.