Shift towards STEM and vocational degrees

[ErrolTheDragon]

I thought some here might be interested in this report from yesterday's Times, and today's leader column with a very positive response to it.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/university-students-ditch-arts-degrees-and-opt-for-medicine-w63vnzrxd?shareToken=6e46a444cbf4ad46435a1154c599e20a

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-changing-trends-in-higher-education-two-cultures-bzzlfbjzd?shareToken=66db880492335958414064160e810114

My take on it is that it's probably to some extent an overdue rebalancing following a rise in arts subjects in former polys versus their original more technical/vocational focus. And there's more easily accessible data on employment prospects and salaries, which coupled with tuition fees doubtless informs students decisions.

I’m not surprised at MFL. It’s already the preserve of independents and grammars. Too many comps don’t teach 2 languages to able pupils and everyone drops it if they can so courses are not viable. Utterly short sighted but sadly typical. Too much competition from native speakers too so top grades more difficult to come by. For some these degrees are seen as vocational but many use them as a springboard to other careers. History at some universities might not serve the grads well either.

Engineering grads really should get employed without too much difficulty. MEng especially. Other BEng or sandwich courses are good too. They don’t require very high grades so are attainable. Engineers might not be best placed to teach in schools but other teaching isn’t out of the question.

Architecture is a bit short sighted. DH has worked with architects a lot and they are a real bell weather of the economy. Up and down like a yo-yo. They follow our economic fortunes and most architects don’t work for the household names. It’s quite a risky degree/career. They earn more but it’s not a risk free career like nursing.

chopc - she didn’t want to wait until the end of medical training before starting a family and medical training with a young family is incredibly stressful (DH did it). She has now completed her nursing degree and two years nursing and now wants to start her family. She loves her job but wants time out when she has children.

Engineers might not be best placed to teach in schools but other teaching isn’t out of the question.

The shortage of stem teachers, especially maths and physics and comp sci mean that actually quite a few do go into teaching if they want a change of pace.

I was surprised to see architecture on that list too. It's probably another of those degrees like law which sound great in theory but more people train than there's real places for.

@Parker231

chopc - she didn’t want to wait until the end of medical training before starting a family and medical training with a young family is incredibly stressful (DH did it). She has now completed her nursing degree and two years nursing and now wants to start her family. She loves her job but wants time out when she has children.

That's a very sane approach. There's probably rather too much of valuing medicine far more than nursing, and people not thinking through what different careers mean holistically in terms of lifestyle and contentment.

I don't think what you said is quite true @ErrolTheDragon. For starters the salaries are higher for doctors. Yes if you specialise in nursing you can earn more however not as much as a specialist doctor. This has to be taken into consideration if aiming to work part time. I did all my post graduate exams after I started my family whilst DH was starting his legal career. Looking back at it I can't imagine how we coped. Well I think I mentioned on another thread how I collapsed from exhaustion whilst on a 24 hr shift back in the day. But our family were brilliant and gave us a LOT of support....... and I knew it was for a finite amount of time.

In addition we lived in the Middle East for a few years where nurses were not really recognised in the same professional capacity as doctors. This was completely wrong of course but the point was being a doctor gave me the opportunity to work there when we moved due to my husband's job.

It was definitely tough whilst the kids were young and we were both junior in our career. However kids can remember none of the hard times because for the last 7-8 years we have been enjoying flexible careers and able to spend lots of time with the kids and not miss their special events.

Engineers might not be best placed to teach in schools but other teaching isn’t out of the question.

My son's school had a physics teacher who'd previously been an engineer in a nuclear power station. Son said he was the best Physics teacher he'd had as he kept bringing real life scenarios into the classroom to illustrate points and relate things to "real life" rather than just dryly teaching from the text books (which the others did).

The teacher also ran the school's astronomy society which was one of the most popular after school clubs.

DS always thought that the few of his teachers who came into it later in life after other careers made better teachers.

I was surprised to see architecture on that list too. It's probably another of those degrees like law which sound great in theory but more people train than there's real places for.

With most of the professions, the degree isn't actually that useful and doesn't make you an architect, lawyer, accountant, actuary or whatever. You get your degree and then you get a "training" job in a firm where you do the professional exams and get your required practical experience. People without "relevant" degrees can do exactly the same but usually have more professional exams to do. It's often quicker just to leave school after A levels, get a trainee job as a trainee accountant or whatever, and take your professional exams alongside working - you end up with the same professional qualification, but in less time and without £45k of student debt!

You definitely will not get quicker professioal qualifications as an architect or engineer by leaving school at 18 and trying to get a job. What job might be the question? DH has had young people doing part time degrees but it is a massive slog. The brightest have definitely gone to university! It is far better to do the degree (MEng preferably) and come into a job as a graduate engineer and do the further training requred. Yes, you pay grad tax, but you do not have a defined debt that must be paid back like a bank loan. You will almost certainly earn more money much more quickly because you will qualify fully more quickly, eg CEng.