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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Oxbridge 2021: another 6 months of fretting

771 replies

DahliaMacNamara · 01/02/2021 10:55

Will they make the grades? How will grades be awarded anyway? What the hell are Cambridge up to with that nasty little clause?

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goodbyestranger · 07/02/2021 09:29

Interesting to see if they do alter the clause. It was clearly drafted by their own lawyer who may be just as smart as any lawyer on MN and who I’m sure will have given the wording a certain amount of thought.

What is the exact legal relationship between universities and UCAS anyhow?

BilberryBaggins · 07/02/2021 10:20

Yy, agree Xenia.

Errol - that is the same as any university, or school. It’s not peculiar to Cambridge. In fact they have an easier job than most of the universities.

Goodbyestranger - if they wish to operate within UCAS then they have to abide by UCAS rules. If they wish to make their own rules, and reserve the right to withdraw places post-results, then they need to operate outside of the UCAS process, ie essentially become a private university - but I rather think they don’t want to do that.

BilberryBaggins · 07/02/2021 10:24

Anyway. If they have now clarified that all places will be honoured,, then all is well that ends well; the important thing is the candidates and their progression, rather than a clause that may or may not have had malign intent and may or may not have been drawn up by lawyers.

How is everyone’s children doing? Are they doing exams or anything like that? What is your home learning provision like?

ErrolTheDragon · 07/02/2021 11:08

Errol - that is the same as any university, or school. It’s not peculiar to Cambridge.

Yes, exactly. I think they've just made things clearer than they were last year, and maybe clearer than other places whose t&cs aren't subject to such scrutiny.

BilberryBaggins · 07/02/2021 11:12

I don’t think they did, I think they made things very blurred and obscure and caused needless stress to candidates.

RaskolnikovsGarret · 07/02/2021 15:53

I don’t know anything about UCAS’s specific rules or how they interact with an individual university’s rules, but the basic principle is that students choose a firm and an insurance offer, and if they get the grades stipulated, they are given their first choice.

I don’t see how Cambridge can suddenly change its terms in a way that makes a mockery of the established system, and I’m fairly sure that a court would interpret the term in favour of a student and against the university.

I have no doubt that a lawyer would have been involved in the drafting of the term. It is, however, unfair and has caused unnecessary stress to some students. Cambridge could have achieved the same result (negotiating deferrals etc.) with individual students without introducing such a clause.

I agree with Xenia that the term should ideally be redrafted. However if Cambridge decided to try and rely on it to force a student to move (which seems unlikely now) its response to The Times and individual queries would be likely to be taken into account, so would hopefully prevent such an outcome.

A foolish and rather insensitive move by the university, but hopefully no harm done to the students, for whom this potential further level of uncertainty would have no doubt been very unwelcome.

RaskolnikovsGarret · 07/02/2021 15:59

I don’t normally post on MN, but since I have, I’ll respond to Bilberry. ☺️

My DD2 has a Cambridge offer, and is debating between that and UCL. I genuinely don’t know which offer she will accept. I thought UCL would win out as she prefers the course, but she loves the city and university of Cambridge. DD1 is there, and loves it, so this is also influencing her. (She wasn’t remotely perturbed by the infamous clause 4 btw.)

At the moment, she is sort of revising for her mocks. Bored of lockdown, although I have been very impressed by the resilience of both girls. Much tougher than their old mother.

Hope other DCs are well.

BilberryBaggins · 07/02/2021 16:17

Congrats to your DD2, and lovely dilemma to have!! Glad she is coping well with the lockdown (albeit with the boredom - I think we're all enduring that, aren't we!!). Nice to have a nice update!!

Chilldonaldchill · 07/02/2021 17:47

I think mine feels in limbo now - not sure what's happening with exams etc. She has coursework for two of her subjects but one of them is complete and the other currently being finished off. That feels very important at the moment to her as it might be one of the things that the grade is based on. She is so desperate to get back to school and so worried they will say that year 13s won't go back. She's also dreading her 18th birthday being her second lockdown birthday. However the relief of the C offer is enough to offset some of the fed-upness at the ongoing lockdown. I also agree though that I'm impressed by the resilience shown by both my children through all of this.

LaundryFairy · 07/02/2021 18:06

Very much agree about the feeling in limbo thing. DS' school are set to do some form of short mini mocks at home in the first week of March (not quite sure why they are doing this before the consultation results have been published). DS is also done one coursework and nearly finished his other, so that's a relief. I also agree about the offer of a place (Oxford in his case) goes a long way to offsetting the worries and stresses of this time.

DS is also very happy to have one of his friends going to Oxford next year (not that common an occurrence at his state 6th form college). Even though his friend is on a different course and at a different college, just having a familiar face in the same city will be good for him as he doesn't make friends terribly easily.

Jalfrezi · 07/02/2021 18:26

DD's school have postponed their mocks (which I believe we were due to take place end of Feb) and they are now going to take place at the end of April (or possibly early May). I think the school are hoping the U6th will be back in school by then so mocks can be properly invigilated. DD is happy as it gives her time to revise over Easter rather than a mad stressful revision time now (as she's been focussed on coursework). This is all subject to hearing what the exam boards plan to do though. If it involves some sort of exam/assessment as well, the internal mocks may well move. She has just handed in coursework this week for 2 of her subjects so it's her first relaxed weekend with minimal homework in ages. Bliss!

DahliaMacNamara · 07/02/2021 19:38

DD had a bundle of exam papers through the post at the beginning of term in lieu of the mocks that had been planned. School have finally initiated timetabled online lessons, much to her disgust! She's fine with actually being at school, but had got used to doing her own thing at home. She's started looking at the Oxford reading list, and I find myself feeling oddly superstitious about it, as if buying them would be jinxing the whole thing. (And technical books are horrifically expensive, which is not a minor consideration.)

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sandybayley · 07/02/2021 21:09

@DahliaMacNamara - if you do buy any books (nearer the time!) make sure you keep the receipts. DS1's Oxford college has a generous fund for reimbursing the costs of books up to a limit each term. I'm pretty sure must of the colleges do.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/02/2021 21:42

We had a surprise re text books for DD (Cambridge engineering) ... it turned out she didn't need to buy any! Between what was available online from the department and the libraries, what she needed was covered. Not sure if she's had to get any in her third and fourth years.

DahliaMacNamara · 07/02/2021 22:19

Very useful information, thanks, sandy.
We're not near any decent sized libraries, so it hasn't occurred to DD that books can be borrowed. I'll get one or two nearer the time, jinx permitting. I'm also conscious of her tendency to dive into things and become overly absorbed, and it might be a tiny bit wiser to focus mainly on A level subjects for the moment.

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ErrolTheDragon · 07/02/2021 22:47

There's often a second hand market in standard texts, so it may be worth holding off on those till they get there.

sandybayley · 08/02/2021 07:01

DS1 got his text books second hand off Amazon. Much cheaper!

cantkeepawayforever · 09/02/2021 21:09

Sneaking on here. DD has an offer for Cambridge, and after pretty much a year of surprisingly robust mental health has absolutely hit the wall and is in a fairly bad way....

cantkeepawayforever · 09/02/2021 21:12

(As in, lockdown 1 was fine, back in school was fine, isolation for her year was fine, applications were fine but ludicrously hectic ... Christmas was not great, January was bad despite results from C, and things now are awful. No history of MH difficulties.)

sandybayley · 09/02/2021 21:20

Sorry to hear that @cantkeepawayforever - it's tough at the moment I think. I wonder if it's worse as it feels like we're close to the beginning of the end but not there yet.

Has your DD managed to talk to anyone who might be able to help? I'm guessing CAMHS have a bit of a wait but maybe her school have something?

DeRigueurMortis · 10/02/2021 02:02

@cantkeepawayforever

Really sorry to hear this. It's a tough time and I think the added stress of an Oxbridge application has added to the burden.

DS has been been pretty robust through the process thankfully but even he is feeling a bit deflated right now.

The adrenaline that sustained them through the application/interview and then waiting for an offer has peaked and whilst in normal times they "should" be happy I think these times have sent many children into a low because after ALL that there's still so much uncertainty.

It possibly feels less like an achievement and more like another hurdle/burden and they are getting low on reserves.

My advice is to keep talking to her and make clear many children feel exactly the same. I've told DS about this thread and he often asks about what's happening and how other applicants are feeling. I think it helps him to know that his feelings are perfectly normal.

Jalfrezi · 10/02/2021 09:19

@cantkeepawayforever
I'm so sorry to hear the difficult time your DD is experiencing. It's so much harder when we can't make them magically better.
I agree with @DeRigueurMortis in that they have all been having to work at this peak but that they still have no control and certainty over what is going to happen.
In normal times, they would be able to take their foot off the gas now and again. One rushed mediocre essay or not revising enough for a test would not normally matter but this year they have had to make sure that every piece of work is the best they can produce as everything can be taken into account. I really don't think our children are able to sustain 100% effort for such a prolonged period. It's natural to have peaks and troughs. It's no surprise that they will hit a wall at some point with the mental toll on them particularly when they are isolated from friends and nothing to look forward to on the horizon.
My heart goes out to you and would second asking school if they have a counsellor or someone on the pastoral team she can talk to.

Elsewhere23 · 10/02/2021 09:40

@cantkeepawayforever so sorry to hear your DD is struggling. It may be cold comfort with what you are going through but rest assured your DD is not alone. And neither are you.
My DD (no previous MH issues, v robust & resilient) started restrictive eating during 1st lockdown. It’s been very difficult. She has been “seen” by CAMHS for the past 6 months but they are clearly overwhelmed and care has been patchy. More helpful for me to have someone to share worried with than to her.
That said, things have slowly improved and we have worked out a list of steps/targets to make sure she is well enough to take her place at Cambs. I have to say if she is not firmly on track she will have to try and defer as Camb is no place to try and get well. She knows this and seems motivated.
Days can be mixed (the good, the bad and the ugly). Based on my limited personal experience (no MH medical background here), these have made a difference:

  • a regular walk with friend (at least twice a week)
  • taking the dog out. (Often she doesn’t want to go but is always much happier for it)
  • self care (candles, bath, music)
  • FaceTime with friends / & watching a series together
  • she’s planning a trip to Cornwall with her gang in the summer - this cheers her up no end
  • block/filter unhealthy social media feed
  • I let her know I’m always there. If she’s up in her room for ages, I will check in. I’m learning how to listen rather than tell (which is very tricky for me!) She does like to hear that I know she can get through this, that this is a temporary blip.
  • family time in a house of teens who just want to be out with their friends can be fraught but we have started playing poker together in the evenings after dinner and this seems to help!
Depending on the nature and severity of the condition, you may want to see your GP and speak to a therapist privately now. As I say to my DD, it’s completely understandable for teens to have dark days in these challenging and stressful times. But put her focus and determination to work & use the remaining lockdown to get well and look ahead to the golden times ahead. Sorry for long (& personal) post...!
SeasonFinale · 10/02/2021 12:43

for second hand books too there is a really good website www.Abebooks.co.uk

DahliaMacNamara · 10/02/2021 13:36

Hope your DD can access some useful support, @cantkeepawayforever. It's damn hard for even the most resilient to remain on an even keel right now, and when it's something more than the day-to-day struggles we're all facing, it's quite frightening for us parents.

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